Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, September 26, 1997 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Donald McHose, Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Jim S, Ken Sutherland, Jonathan Paisley
Rusty Tucker: Hello
Bob Nunn: Hello
Donald McHose: Well I'm still on the road and sharing 1 line with six others ( three women) It translates into lost ppp at any second.How are Bob n Rusty
Rusty Tucker: :)
Bob Nunn: Doing fine, nice day here in Memphis!
Donald McHose: Cloudy/cool
Rusty Tucker: Nora blew thru yesterday -- got about 1/2" rain here
Rusty Tucker: Still very humid, and getting warm again
Bob Nunn: I watched the weather, you are getting the edge of that hurricane, huh?
Rusty Tucker: yep, just a storm now, heading your way
Bob Nunn: I take it we didn't have chats Tues, correct?
Bob Nunn: Hey Jim!
Rusty Tucker: Yes, it was just Jon and I in the PM
Jim S.: Hi all
Rusty Tucker: the morning log is in the chat mailbox
Ken Sutherland: hi all
Bob Nunn: I stopped in but my ISP was down so I was on LD. Didn't stay. Thanks I will pick it up.
Bob Nunn: Hey Ken
Rusty Tucker: Netcom was crashed here yesterday, the whole southwest was down :(
Donald McHose: hi Ken, Jim
Rusty Tucker: Probably less than an hour, I was surprised it didn't make the news anywhere
Donald McHose: I was wondering about the lack of access
Bob Nunn: That ain't sposed to happen, this is the net after all. My local guy crashes more than I do so it pulls me down with him.
Ken Sutherland: what went bang
Michael Davidson: Hey Bob, your web site is so groovy, I can't believe it.
Bob Nunn: Thanks, I keep working at it. Rusty keeps teaching me new tricks.
Jonathan Paisley: even/morning/etc/all
Michael Davidson: Hi Jonathan, there should be some mail in your SI mailbox very soon.
Rusty Tucker: must be the tie die and bell bottoms
Michael Davidson: :)
Rusty Tucker: Jim, did you see my note re: POP3 login names?
Donald McHose: could be desert boot?
Michael Davidson: Man, is that TF web server something or what.
Jim S.: Yes, just got it.
Bob Nunn: Cool beans
Michael Davidson: If somebody asks me about what TF can do, I'll send em to headgap!
mikael fredriksson: Hi!
Rusty Tucker: hi Mikael
Michael Davidson: Rusty, got a mail server question.
Bob Nunn: They are always welcome and I answer my email pretty regular.
Michael Davidson: it is related to pop 3 stuff
Michael Davidson: What does MS do with mail to a non-TF-bbs user from the Internet at my domain. It seems it squelches it and logs and error
Michael Davidson: now, if the mail is to a username@anotherdomain.com, it sends it out as by way of default gateway.
Rusty Tucker: it bounces it back
Michael Davidson: Maybe I'm wrong, I'll test it again.
Rusty Tucker: by telling the other server a 5xx error
Rusty Tucker: that's if it's addressed to its domain
Jonathan Paisley: But what if MS is just importing an RFC822 file? or an mMsg?
Michael Davidson: yes; nonbbsusername@mylocaldomain.com; you say it bounces it
Rusty Tucker: if it's for another domain, then it routes it according to the routing tables found in the various gateways
Jonathan Paisley: but it doesn't bounce it if it's not coming in on a live SMTP connection?
Rusty Tucker: I'd have to look at that one Jon, it should create an error message back to the sender,
Rusty Tucker: in fcat it does, just like you get if you use TF to send to non existent local user
Michael Davidson: Okay, i saw it route other domains, but I didn't see anything go out by default gateway when I purposely mailed to a user not in user manager.
Michael Davidson: I've seen it bounce with local to local
Jonathan Paisley: I wondered whether it would handle it if it wasn't local-to-local
Rusty Tucker: its the same mechanism from any gateway
Michael Davidson: Okay, I will test it some more and only report back if I can break it. Otherwise, I buy what Rusty has said.
Rusty Tucker: "local bbs" is just a pre-defined gateway
Michael Davidson: Jon it should bounce thru the default gateway if not a live smtp connection up
Jonathan Paisley: ok
Ken Sutherland: Rusty, how are you getting on with the ms bug when you try to send tfemail as file attachments?
Rusty Tucker: i haven;t looked into that one ken
Rusty Tucker: i have a feeling it might be a bit involved
Jonathan Paisley: ken: what bug is that?
Rusty Tucker: If you attach a TFEmail file to a message, it might get processed as an email rather than as an attachment
Jonathan Paisley: ooh yes!
Jonathan Paisley: Solution: Make an attachments folder in Mail Server
Rusty Tucker: It depends on which is earlier in the alpha sort
Jonathan Paisley: [the mailbox, that is]
Rusty Tucker: that's a possibility, but would involve changing code in all the progs
Jonathan Paisley: Surely only in TF server?
Jonathan Paisley: [and TF User if you want to support Mail Local]
Ken Sutherland: don't call me surely
Rusty Tucker: and mail server too
Jonathan Paisley: Mail server I assume only refers to attachments by way of the alias record? Therefore wherever the attachment is, MS will find it
Rusty Tucker: probably, i need to see how it scans a folder too
Jonathan Paisley: So TF Server only has to point the alias record at the file in the 'Attachments' folder
Jonathan Paisley: ok
Ken Sutherland: solution,compress all file attachments
Donald McHose: excuse subject change/Any news on the mail PI/and will it come with the new utilities?
Jim S.: Question about Pop3, when a client sends the USER command it sends the user ID as in 'user ID@pobox.com' what should it send as user for all the mail to 'phoney.com'? And when you sign up with ISP for that service do you get a Password?
Jonathan Paisley: I'm compiling it now, and will post it here on SI. People wanting to test it will have to mail me directly with their name, bbs name and tf/server serial number
Rusty Tucker: they'd give you a login name and password to the mail box that has all the mail in it
Jonathan Paisley: Donald: it will be a separate product
Michael Davidson: the unified pop box acts just like a regular pop box Jim
Jim S.: orso!
Donald McHose: thanks
Michael Davidson: I send a username and a password and only that is necessary. The isp must put all mail to anyname@phoney.com in my single pop mail account.
Jim S.: MD: when you ready to test?
Jonathan Paisley: the USER command should just send the user name, not the domain name as well
Michael Davidson: NOW! Yesterday.
Michael Davidson: It does act just like a regular pop box except that the names of the addresses are varied instead of a single name like username
Michael Davidson: bob@mydomain.com, joe@mydomain.com, username@mydomain.com all are in the box. Good thing is that MS will sort the various names.
Jim S.: For me to do any serious testing will cost me... anyone want to contribute by paying for Lollipop (thanks Bob).
Bob Nunn: You are welcome Jim. Program exceeded my expectations.
Jonathan Paisley: It's so simply serious testing isn't really required! Just give it to someone (eg Michael) who needs it and get feedback
Ken Sutherland: and remember Michael, if you want to use user aliases, OAT can handle this for you also
Bob Nunn: I don't know who asked for it but the clean mailbox feature in this latest version of oat is great!
Ken Sutherland: blame that man from OZ
Michael Davidson: I will test the hell out of it Jim S; I currently have two unified pop accounts and am working on a third.
Jonathan Paisley: uhoh. Back soon. Anyone sending me msgs please hold off. My computer has just gone crazy. I can't see anything on screen. Time for a restart!
Michael Davidson: yes Ken...I think you guys got me hooked on OAT
Rusty Tucker: Hmm. there
Bob Nunn: With close to 500 users and the spammers of the world out there I was getting constipated.
Rusty Tucker: 's an though, ability to suck mail from multiple pop's
Rusty Tucker: you might think about supporting a list of username/passwords/servers rather than a single entry
Michael Davidson: Yes, I want popsicle to be multi-pop box capable. For now, one at a time.
Michael Davidson: Just have a pop-up menu for each account and set the preference for each account in that way. A complication might be in trying to get mail from some more often than from others. So maybe...
Michael Davidson: have a popsicle 1 for Pop3 server 1 and schedule it separately from popsicle 2 for pop server 2
Michael Davidson: Jonathan bit the dust...
Rusty Tucker: That'll work
Ken Sutherland: munch munch
Bob Nunn: Actually you could set up 3 pref files and use applescript to rotate through them like I do with lollipop.
Michael Davidson: Otherwise the popsicle would have to handle schedules and you already have that in MS
Michael Davidson: That'll work too Bob
Ken Sutherland: why not use ms to launch
Michael Davidson: Hey Rusty, got a question about RFC 822 gateway.
Ken Sutherland: must be more reliable than Applescript
Bob Nunn: I do. I use MS to launch my applescripts.
Rusty Tucker: MS runs AS to move the files, then launch
Michael Davidson: Should popsicle go thru RFC 822 gateway so the options would be available there that aren't when dumping popsicle spool files in the mail server folder?
Michael Davidson: For example MIME 8bit could be used, or you could turn off "Allow attachments"
Rusty Tucker: Yes, Jim should make Ps so that it runs as an RFC822 gate
Michael Davidson: Here that Jim. But Rusty...
Jim S.: I'm just sitting back take it in.
Michael Davidson: there are a number of options in the r822 gateway that are inappropriate and possibly confusing if you go by that route. ....
Michael Davidson: How bout, if a popsicle is ready to go, creating a popsicle gateway (ala lollipop)( that only uses already made options of r822 but doesn't include confusing ones (like outgoing domain, default gateway) etc.
Jonathan Paisley: I think one way of doing the multiple accounts is to have multiple copies of the program, one for each domain you want. Then, you can schedule running each copy in mail server
Jonathan Paisley: [maybe that has already been said]
Michael Davidson: Would this be difficult for you to create. We want to keep the load off you.
Rusty Tucker: Those settings affect outgoing mainly
Rusty Tucker: The only way to monkey it up would be to set it as the default gate
Michael Davidson: I did say that already Jon, when you got dumped. That was my suggestion. Bob uses Applescript to cycle them (well he does for lollipop)
Jonathan Paisley: I reckon that's the best idea... :)
Michael Davidson: Just make the program small enough so I have disk space for multiple copies. And allow me to name them different names.
Rusty Tucker: The Ps docs should just show exactly how to configure the gateway
Jim S.: Not multiple copies of program, multiple copies of pref./control file..
Michael Davidson: Hey problem maybe be that MS uses creator code to start programs, or am I wrong, does it use the actual name and path?
Jonathan Paisley: the latter
Michael Davidson: That would work too
Michael Davidson: Jim
Jonathan Paisley: But MS only opens apps, it cant open documents into apps [I think]
Jim S.: YES?
Jim S.: Jon: right
Jim S.: That why AS works.
Jonathan Paisley: the solution to that is to have MS run an applescript that opens the required document in the required program. [maybe this has already been said]
Jim S.: Jon: that the way I run Lollipop.
Michael Davidson: Jonathan has created a popsicle gateway that spools each of the messages files into single "popsispool #" files in the Mail Server mail folder. MS takes them from there and delivers them to local addresses.
Jonathan Paisley: ahh! I've never used Lollipop,since I don't have a news feed
Michael Davidson: It is groovy! I've been waiting for this for years and it is on its way to full realization.
Michael Davidson: It needs an interface though Jonathan :)
Michael Davidson: And Bob said he wants to play with an icon for it.
Jonathan Paisley: yah, I know. Not bad for an hours work though!
Jonathan Paisley: I'm open to iconic suggestion always
Michael Davidson: Yea, after drinking beer.
Michael Davidson: I need your brother's email address Jonathan, so I can tell him to take you out for another beer.
Ken Sutherland: he is young, we are working him up to the mother drink, whisky
Michael Davidson: I use NNTP sucker; what are the reasons to go with Lollipop?
Michael Davidson: Scotch Whiskey, single malt
Ken Sutherland: double kick
Jim S.: NNTP will not work with OT.
Michael Davidson: That's what I thought. Except I am getting it to work.
Jonathan Paisley: Lollipop looks a lot nicer than sucker
Michael Davidson: Also, I would rather support your work Jim than the guy who hasn't modified Sucker in years
Bob Nunn: Too Slow. Lollipop works great and is reliable.
Jim S.: Bob: do you use POST?
Michael Davidson: I think you have convinced me. I have thirty days right Jim?
Bob Nunn: I will send you a note sometime about it.
Michael Davidson: I know NNTP posts and I have seen lollipop posts too
Jim S.: From 1st use.
Michael Davidson: Ok. I've read a bunch of the docs for lollipop, seems easy enough to set up. So I think I will
Jim S.: Can pay thru Kagi.
Michael Davidson: But still, I get NNTP sucker to work with TO
Jim S.: MD: not for some sysop, I think they cant read.
Michael Davidson: I'd rather send you check in the mail, is that okay?
Michael Davidson: TO that is
Michael Davidson: sorry, my spell checker constantly changes O T to TO :)
Jim S.: That is better, not commission to Kagi.
Michael Davidson: Jim, do you have a beta I can test
Michael Davidson: of popsicle
Ken Sutherland: got to go,catch u Tuesday
Michael Davidson: Jonathan, you have a hack for the password problem in labs?
Jonathan Paisley: yup
Jim S.: not yet.
Michael Davidson: can it be put in the settings file or do we have to hack user?
Michael Davidson: I am here for you Jim
Jonathan Paisley: you can do both
Jonathan Paisley: or just one
Michael Davidson: or either?? :)
Michael Davidson: Cool, esp. the setting file method
Michael Davidson: Is that posted to SI yet?
Jonathan Paisley: It's just a CDEF that erases the password from the settings file whenever it is used. No, not yet
Donald McHose: Got to run myself , the fellow bat shift-ets are wailing -n-nashing teeth see ya
Michael Davidson: CDEF resource that you paste in
Jonathan Paisley: yah, and add it to the 'logon' connection DITL
Michael Davidson: Rusty, can you put in your long list of things to do: get the remember password non-global?
mikael fredriksson: Jonathan my application for testing the mail pi is in your mailbox here on SI
Jonathan Paisley: ok
Rusty Tucker: OK - I'll put it in my notes
Bob Nunn: Gotta run guys, remember you can review the logs later tonite @ http://www.spiderisland.com/~chat
Michael Davidson: Hey, speaking of logs, we really should make them available on SI bbs too
Michael Davidson: I'm not sure where they should go, a folder name Sysops Chat Logs somewhere on the bbs. No?
Rusty Tucker: Yeah, probably a chat folder in the sysops area
Rusty Tucker: Maybe even available on a mailing list too
Michael Davidson: Or maybe post them in the telefinder.sysops conference to show what their missing
Jonathan Paisley: cool!
Michael Davidson: A mailing list might be nice too.
Rusty Tucker: Hopefully the "chat editor" will see this :)
Michael Davidson: Is anybody working on alt.bbs.tf yet...I thought somebody volunteered to filter that....
Michael Davidson: It is full of spam but some useful stuff too
Rusty Tucker: Did somebody find a pub server that carries it?
Michael Davidson: Can you create a folder on your bbs now Rusty so that the chats can be uploaded into?
Michael Davidson: My little server here in KS does
Rusty Tucker: done
Michael Davidson: It's not public to
Michael Davidson: Tell us where the folder is Rusty for the record
Jim S.: I took a look at alt.bbs.tf on mindspring and it did not have any spam, yesterday.
Michael Davidson: mindspring, is that near Atlanta
Michael Davidson: I posted (by way of Sucker) to a guy with domain mindspring looking for a local TF BBS there. Are you in Atlanta Jim...I thought Memphis
Rusty Tucker: sysiof files/chat logs
Jim S.: Yes, I'm in Columbia, SC... mindspring took pipeline's individuals.
Michael Davidson: I posted to alt.bbs.telefinder that is
Michael Davidson: Thanks Rusty!
Michael Davidson: Don't you have a mail list server set up already Rusty?
Michael Davidson: :)
Rusty Tucker: yep, I'll add tf-chat to it
Michael Davidson: how does a sysop get on your mailing list, for the record
Michael Davidson: Rusty, the only folder in sysops files that is not capitalized is "chat logs"; aesthetics.
Rusty Tucker: tf-chat is active now
Rusty Tucker: send email to macjordomo@spiderisland.com
Rusty Tucker: in msg body( not subject )
Rusty Tucker: add
Rusty Tucker: SUBSCRIBE tf-chat yourfirstname yourlastname
Michael Davidson: Neat-o, are there other lists that a sysop can subscribe too beside tf-chat?
Rusty Tucker: tf-announce
Michael Davidson: Maybe we should announce in telefinder.announce and tf-announce about tf-chat mail list?
Jonathan Paisley: lost connection...
Rusty Tucker: I've posted the tf-announce info many times.
Rusty Tucker: I wish Macjordomo had an confirm by email feature so that I could put a subscribe form on the web site.
Michael Davidson: A subscribe on the web would be great!
Rusty Tucker: we form that works, but you can easily put in ANY address, and thought that it might lead to problems
Michael Davidson: Doesn't Jonathan's cgi handle false addresses...maybe not
Rusty Tucker: Yes, cuz you need to be logged in to use it.
Rusty Tucker: so the true email address is already known
Michael Davidson: So, will that work for subscribing
Michael Davidson: Warn the subscriber where his email list will be going if you can, then let them confirm it and voila!
Rusty Tucker: yes, but it only works for members of the bbs, and will send the sub info to their bbs mailbox
Michael Davidson: Speaking of chat logs, is there an easy way to find the chat logs on SI web, without knowing /~chat?
Michael Davidson: Yeah, so it is limited then.
Rusty Tucker: I haven't found time to add it to the links yet
Michael Davidson: Ok, just wondering.
Rusty Tucker: ok folks, I'm out!
Michael Davidson: Maybe you need a mail cgi that overrides User Manager for subscribing
Michael Davidson: Hey thanks Rusty.
Rusty Tucker: see you all next Tuesday!
September 26, 1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software