Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, September 19, 1997 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Ken Sutherland, Jonathan Paisley, Lazariuk, Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Donald McHose, Jim S., Bob Nunn, Brian Akey
Ken Sutherland: morning
Bob Nunn: Good Morning! Afternoon for me - almost 1 pm
Ken Sutherland: night for me
Ken Sutherland: 7 pm
Bob Nunn: Even though I occasionally travel internationally I still have conceptual problems with time.
Bob Nunn: I have a Java based chat server running @: http://206.30.216.253/run.biapchat
Michael Davidson: Hi all!
Ken Sutherland: interesting
Ken Sutherland: hiya
Michael Davidson: Hey Ken, did you get my email about lollipop posting on alt.bbs.telefinder
Ken Sutherland: no, my email has been a bit stuffed over the last few days
Michael Davidson: Is you'all's connections really slow too, or is it just mine
Ken Sutherland: keeps getting stormed with junk email, average 40 messages a day
Ken Sutherland: SLOW
Michael Davidson: I've got spam up to my eyes these days. Damn them
Bob Nunn: Mine seems okay. ISDN at the office
Michael Davidson: bob's got it made :)
Bob Nunn: I just keep adding them to the spam filter. Helps
Michael Davidson: Hello mikael!
mikael fredriksson: Hi!
Michael Davidson: I cannot keep up on the filters
Bob Nunn: Hey
Bob Nunn: I uploaded the latest but I keep adding my own personal.
Rusty Tucker: Hola!
Michael Davidson: mikael, did you notice that Rusty implemented RFC 1985 in the last mailserver beta!!!! Yeah!
Rusty Tucker: I need to find out if it really works though! :)
Michael Davidson: It's almost fun to block those bastards out
Michael Davidson: Rusty!
Rusty Tucker: Netcom's mailserver doesn't support it.
Michael Davidson: I haven't tested it yet because of my ISP is dragging their feet. I have even went to a different ISP to get it done so that I can test it ASAP
Michael Davidson: Both my ISP's support it...so when I get my mail moved, I can test the hell out of it
Rusty Tucker: Sounds good. Robert Hall got it yesterday, so I expect to hear from him as well.
Michael Davidson: Did you make it so that I can have multiple domains to ETRN to, or is it restricted to one domain.
mikael fredriksson: Yes! now I only need the mailserver to hold mail for domains that have a SMTP server (that support RFC 1985) that call my system to get their mail
Rusty Tucker: right now it only supports the "outgoing domain" name.
mikael fredriksson: I know ;-)
Rusty Tucker: But I plan to change that to use all the local domains.
Michael Davidson: I noticed that communigate smtp allows it mikael, both severing and receiving! Hint Hint!
mikael fredriksson: Thanks!!!
Rusty Tucker: MS holding mail for other servers would require a lot of changes.
Michael Davidson: Great Rusty.
mikael fredriksson: And the new EIMS server
Michael Davidson: that was communigate SMTP, I meant
Jonathan Paisley: hi
Rusty Tucker: MS doesn't do any 'per domain' spooling in the SMTP gate. Only the TF Server to Server gate spools for individual domains.
Michael Davidson: I am so anxious about this feature you added Rusty! It's a wonderful addition.
mikael fredriksson: Rusty time for small press release? ;-)
Michael Davidson: Am I correct then in assuming that ms doesn't support the "@" optional character in the ETRN command...this gets anything.my.domain
Ken Sutherland: what is so good about the RFC, sorry if a daft question
Rusty Tucker: Should be close, I won't have time to put anything together today. I'll be out of the office Monday, but back in time for chat on Tues.
Michael Davidson: It allows any non-dedicated sysop to use smtp to send and receive email
Michael Davidson: without having to hang online with the smtp server till the server determines that it is time to send mail to us
Rusty Tucker: MD - It just sends the local domain right now. Later it will do an ETRN for each local domain.
Michael Davidson: If it works, I definitely think that RFC 1985 support is worth a press release.
Ken Sutherland: ta
Michael Davidson: ok
Ken Sutherland: OAT 2.01FC% - the bug strikes back is being released later tonight
Michael Davidson: It is a godsend to non-dedicated sysops because our only options before were tf.net and UUCP (UUCP is barely an option)
Ken Sutherland: fc5
Jonathan Paisley: hi again. My comp just crashed 3 times
Michael Davidson: RFC 1985 support is a godsend; Rusty implemented RFC 1985; therefore, Rusty is a god.
Ken Sutherland: no chance my ISP will support it
Ken Sutherland: he thinks vms is best system, its a pity it is very old in RFC compliance
Michael Davidson: bummer.
Ken Sutherland: its fun, i had my setup in his hot house
Ken Sutherland: 5 vms systems running a ISP, 196k feed, 48 modems, and a lot of hot air
Ken Sutherland: oh, and 14 terminals running different programs
Michael Davidson: Rusty, dear god, how difficult would it be to create a POP3 gateway for unified domain-wide pop accounts? Just thinking about it hurts MY head, but this would maybe be the email solution for those that can't get server with 1985 support.
Michael Davidson: How do you send mail Ken?
Ken Sutherland: please,please,please,please,please,please,please
Michael Davidson: can you get a unified domain-wide pop account Ken?
Ken Sutherland: i now have a humble AWS950 with a modem and a tcp connection
Ken Sutherland: i am planing to get my own feed but at $3000 for install and $1000 a month for a 64k feed it sucks
Michael Davidson: dialup connection Ken?
Ken Sutherland: from my TF site to my ISP setup
Ken Sutherland: updates every 4 hrs
Michael Davidson: using what gateway?
Ken Sutherland: TF-TF
Michael Davidson: tfnet?
Ken Sutherland: i have 2 systems
Ken Sutherland: highlander and son of highlander
Michael Davidson: :)
Ken Sutherland: son of highlander runs our web server www.highlander.net.uk
Michael Davidson: so you have a dedicated connection. I see
Ken Sutherland: yup
Rusty Tucker: The POP3 could be done as an external gateway. Similar to Jim's Lollipop gate. It would only need to 'get' the mail then spool it for Mail server.
Michael Davidson: Then you have all you need.
Rusty Tucker: The existing SMTP gate would still handle out bound mail.
Michael Davidson: let the dedicated get and send with smtp and then TF-TF to your bbs
Ken Sutherland: the main prob is my has a total of 192K incoming and has sold leased lines of 256k before we take into account dialup accounts of 48 lines
Ken Sutherland: indeed
Rusty Tucker: Nothing unusual about that
Rusty Tucker: I'm not sure what the typical overbooking rate is, but you need to overbook to make $
Michael Davidson: Yes, Rusty...who would be a good candidate for creating the POP3 external gateway...It would be very helpful to many bbs, since unified domain-wide pop accounts are getting more common.
Ken Sutherland: the best cps my system ever got was 4k
Jonathan Paisley: :)
Ken Sutherland: just because you have cable Jon 8:(
Michael Davidson: Jonathan, would he be a good candidate, he's smiling right now! :)
Bob Nunn: We pay $350 ISP charges a month for a dedicated ISDN that runs at 64k but ups to 128K if demand rises. Is that common for U.S.?
Michael Davidson: I don't know Bob.
Ken Sutherland: come to the UK, get ripped offfffffff
Jim S.: Bob: tell them what the phone co. charges for ISDN.
Bob Nunn: Residential is cheap at $30 a month.
Bob Nunn: Not sure what business is. A bunch more though.
Michael Davidson: Hey Jim, how would you like to work on a POP3 external gateway for TF?
Jim S.: ISDN in my location cost $200, month,, same phone company.
Rusty Tucker: Penny / minute of connect time, that's the killer here.
Jim S.: It would be fun!!??
Bob Nunn: No minute charge here. Move to Memphis.
Ken Sutherland: we would love that rate
Rusty Tucker: then add your IP connect charges..
Jim S.: You have spare bed?
Michael Davidson: YOU can do it Jim, you are experience already.
Bob Nunn: My 33.6k dedicated is $40 a month. But I had to buy both modems. I got a deal though since the guy gets a lot of business from me.
Jonathan Paisley: I'm willing to give it a shot
Ken Sutherland: Jim, what are you offering
Michael Davidson: Now that Lollipop is out of beta, you have time for Popsicle, Jim !!! :)
Michael Davidson: Really Jim, did you guys hear that!!!!!
Jim S.: HmHm popsicle...like the name.:-)
Michael Davidson: How's Popsicle sound for a name??
Bob Nunn: I can see the icon now
Rusty Tucker: :)
Michael Davidson: I'll help you test it. I would love to test it.
Michael Davidson: Sorry, my connection is very slow
Michael Davidson: LOL (bob)
Michael Davidson: Rusty, would mailserver handle the parsing of all the local names that come through Popsicle from a given domain, or would Popsicle have to handle them
Rusty Tucker: yes, ms will do that.
Rusty Tucker: Just download the email and put it in the gates import folder.
Rusty Tucker: In the gate setup it would be config'd to NOT handle ANY domains.
Rusty Tucker: That way MS won't export anything to it.
Ken Sutherland: would this stop blind smtp traffic
Michael Davidson: BYB
Rusty Tucker: it would NT really have any effect on SMTP
Bob Nunn: I like being able to route my own mail from remote locations. But I wouldn't like it if a lot of people figured out they could.
Ken Sutherland: is anyone suffering from junk email, I'm getting up to 5 a day and its starting to get a pain?????
Michael Davidson: feel lucky if only 5 a day Ken
Ken Sutherland: any way for a filter that can stop junk
Rusty Tucker: When I started SPAM filtering it dropped
Ken Sutherland: ie. a email, not addressed to you correctly
Rusty Tucker: but now its starting to pick up again
Bob Nunn: Ken, I just keeping adding domains to my filter.
Ken Sutherland: never could find the docs, could you repost them please
Rusty Tucker: I haven't synced w/ AOLs SPAM list in while
Rusty Tucker: You just put the spam filter file into the MS folder.
Bob Nunn: I just put up a fresh one
Ken Sutherland: where
Bob Nunn: BBS utils on SI
Michael Davidson: Okay, so what format must the mail be in to that is dropped in the gateway folder Rusty, ISO 8859/1 or what does ms need.
Ken Sutherland: ya beauty, thanks
Rusty Tucker: RFC 822 format
Michael Davidson: then mail server will take it from there?
Jim S.: Rusty: I have searched for RFC 1985 but can't find it?
Michael Davidson: I have a copy of it Jim, I could send it to you
Rusty Tucker: http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/htbin/RFC/rfc-index.html
Rusty Tucker: That's a pointer to all the RFC's
Michael Davidson: I got it from where Rusty pointed us to last Tuesday.
Jim S.: good
Michael Davidson: I'll send it to you on SI
Ken Sutherland: thanks, spam now in place, will email my users to tell them
Rusty Tucker: But you may want to look at the POP3 RFC if you're interesting in doing Popsicle
Rusty Tucker: it's http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/htbin/RFC/rfc1939.html
Ken Sutherland: Rusty, what is the limit the chat room can handle?
Rusty Tucker: As many lines as we've got -- 20 right now
Rusty Tucker: CINT 8000 controls the Chat Server's limit
Rusty Tucker: should be 100 by default
Michael Davidson: does Jim need RFC 822 too rusty
Brian Akey: I have been running the TF client for windows on NT4.0 with the IE4 preview 2 and it messed up the fonts on TF user client. Every time you go into an area and get out the font width grows bigger and quickly becomes unreadable.
Rusty Tucker: I think I found that bug this AM Brian
Rusty Tucker: I'll post a 3.0.1 Tuesday if I don't finish it today
Brian Akey: Thanks!!!!
Jim S.: I have it.
Michael Davidson: okay
Michael Davidson: What else can we do to help you Jim?
Jim S.: Got rfc1985, also
Michael Davidson: Rusty, does the RFC 1939 deal with unified domain-wide pop accounts
Michael Davidson: now that's support, Rusty!
Brian Akey: I have been playing with the beta of FMpro 4. Has anyone else?
Michael Davidson: not I Brian
Rusty Tucker: No, its just the POP3 protocol
Rusty Tucker: domain-wide pop accounts has to do with the content of the mail box
Brian Akey: It has the lasso stuff build in. Even the PC version can do web stuff.
Brian Akey: Mac week has an article about mail servers and they listed TF as one of the servers!
Michael Davidson: is there any documents that you know of that would help Jim with popsicle?
Michael Davidson: I mean with handling unified pop accounts
Rusty Tucker: He doesn't need to worry about that.
Rusty Tucker: To do the Pop3 client:
Rusty Tucker: login
Rusty Tucker: list the mail contents
Rusty Tucker: request a download for each one
Rusty Tucker: save it to the import folder
Rusty Tucker: request to delete each on
Rusty Tucker: logout out.
Michael Davidson: ok
mikael fredriksson: I sent a mail to (joanna_pearlstein@macweek.com) the original article did not have Telefinder in it (the one on the web)
Bob Nunn: If anyone ever wants to see a TF, lasso and FM3 served database you can check out one that runs on my site: http://www.headgap.com/ro/search.html
Michael Davidson: o, I figured he would get all of the mail in one doc, then delete, you say get one at a time. Hmmmmm.
Rusty Tucker: which article?
Rusty Tucker: The easy part about the POP3 gate is that you don't need to pay any attention to content or headers!
Brian Akey: I got the Mac week Thursday. Talking about all the mail servers and something about Eudora's new mail server.
Michael Davidson: That's nice! What would be the hard part? :)
Rusty Tucker: Writing the networking code if you haven't got that part already
Rusty Tucker: The you also need to parse the POP3 responses.
Jim S.: Similar to the way NNTP client parse NNTP server?
Rusty Tucker: Yep, almost identical
Michael Davidson: Can Jim use the same "networking code" from Lollipop
Jonathan Paisley: Jim could write a plug in for TF server
Jonathan Paisley: it's all VERY easy
Michael Davidson: Rusty's "almost identical" could be a prop
Rusty Tucker: Yes, or as a PI.
Jim S.: To do all this?
Michael Davidson: Can we expect the beta next week Jim:) (it's so easy)
Jonathan Paisley: It is so easy
mikael fredriksson: The article in MacWeek I was thinking about is at http://www.zdnet.com/macweek/mw_1135/nw_eudora.html
Jim S.: What is the advantage of a PI?
Jonathan Paisley: Jim: You don't have to do any networking code
Jonathan Paisley: It will run under TFs environment, so
Jonathan Paisley: it won't hog processor time in the same way as an application
Jim S.: OR SO!! ;=)
Jonathan Paisley: It can be configured in tandem with the server with it's own window
Brian Akey: I have been looking for an email server that can capture in and outgoing mail to an archive and the only one to do it so far pc or mac is CD softs quickmail server pro.
Michael Davidson: but a PI ain't going to work for BBS without a dedicated line, and that is the main reason for popsicle, to allow for incoming email...not to say that a PI wouldn't be nice too, but we need the external gateway
Brian Akey: The eudora server doesn't look like much of a mail server. All the regular stuff and some PH plug-in but $200 just for the mail server. The mail server from CE soft not CD soft will cost around $800 for 200 users.
Ken Sutherland: night night
Jonathan Paisley: Why won't the PI work without a dedicated line?
Michael Davidson: maybe try communigate server Brian
Brian Akey: What? is that
Rusty Tucker: You need to have the Web server running to have PI's
Bob Nunn: I think he was hoping someone would just add a check box.
Michael Davidson: (what Rusty said) and that's the problem
Jonathan Paisley: rusty: I accidentally turned the web server off and all my plug ins still worked [at least the non web related ones]
Jonathan Paisley: But you still don't need a dedicated line to even turn the web server on with say only 1 connection
Rusty Tucker: I'd do this gate as an app that MS would launch on schedule.
Rusty Tucker: And then it would quit after it completes the mail download
Michael Davidson: also, since Jim has already done lollipop as an app, it would be easier (maybe) to write a similar app (popsicle)
Rusty Tucker: You could mod the Lolli/NW code to do it well enough.
Jonathan Paisley: this is true.
Jonathan Paisley: I just love plug ins
Michael Davidson: Then, Jim can work on the PI
Rusty Tucker: Guys, I gotta go.
Rusty Tucker: See you all Tues.
Rusty Tucker: I'll pick up the log this afternoon, so chat away!
Michael Davidson: So Jim, what do ya think?
Bob Nunn: See you Tues. Everyone have a good weekend
mikael fredriksson: Have nice weekend over there! see ya!
Michael Davidson: Thanks rusty. I'll get back to u as soon as I can test 1985
Brian Akey: Bye.
Jim S.: I don't run a web server! Will start look and reading.
Michael Davidson: bye bob, mikael
Jim S.: By By
Michael Davidson: either do I. go with the app idea, it would be wonderful
Jonathan Paisley: the great thing is that all the complexity is left to TF mail server
Michael Davidson: Bye Jim, keep us informed. THANKS
Michael Davidson: yes, we hope :)
Jonathan Paisley: bfn
September 12,1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software