Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, April 7, 1998 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Jim Smith, Bob Nunn, Bill Gram-Reefer, Dick Grable, Jim Leary, Rick Palmer, Andy Daws
Michael Davidson: Greetings Bob!
Bob Nunn: Hey!
Michael Davidson: What's the topic going to be today?
Bob Nunn: Why everyone is so grumpy only losing 1 hour of sleep?
Michael Davidson: :)
Bob Nunn: Do you think Rusty is still on PST?
Michael Davidson: hope not...would think not
Bob Nunn: Yeah it was in all the papers and stuff.
Rusty Tucker: <<joined the chat>>
Michael Davidson: WhatÕs happening Rusty?
Rusty Tucker: I forgot it was Tues!
Bob Nunn: We were discussing if you were still on PST.
Michael Davidson: Hey guys, let me ask something...I'm creating a bot for chats...how bad would it be if the app was modified each time changes were made to it, instead of just a prefs file?
Rusty Tucker: I'm going to put a patch in the POP3 server to work around this emailer problem.
Michael Davidson: is that a "bug" with the plug-in only Rusty
Michael Davidson: the mail plug-in that is
Rusty Tucker: Emailer is reporting user's "Login" name as the return address, instead of the mail address.
Bob Nunn: MD it would be okay if we didn't have to modify a lot of local paths each time.
Rusty Tucker: This is a problem if you have spaces in your BBS login name, and want to use Emailer as your POP3 client.
Michael Davidson: no paths at all to worry about. It's the filters, such as Friends, Greetings, etc. as well as the settings to invoke that change.
Rusty Tucker: I'll be modifying the POP3 server to accept "rusty_tucker" as a login for "rusty tucker"
Michael Davidson: Emailer has a setting for return address, can't they just use a "_"
Bob Nunn: I guess it see's the space as a delimiter?
Rusty Tucker: Then, Emailer users can use "rusty_tucker" for both login and return address.
Rusty Tucker: Spaces are illegal in internet addresses.
Michael Davidson: That might be good for all servers actually, unless you can think of a problem with it
Michael Davidson: right, but Emailer has a separate field for return address, in which they could use Rusty_Tucker
Rusty Tucker: And Emailer _should_ be using the name with spaces for login only, not in the Return-Path like it is.
mikael fredriksson: RT: please add support for "rusty.tucker" too
Michael Davidson: then TF Mail Server would strip the underscore
Bob Nunn: We use the rusty.tucker naming sequence at work as well.
Michael Davidson: All in all, your fix will be nice, although Mikael F. has a good suggestion too
Rusty Tucker: I know about that MD, but Emailer is not using the "return address" in all the places it should.
Michael Davidson: ok
Rusty Tucker: I want to keep it as simple as possible. It will be easier to have just one way to do it. Replace spaces with _ in your name.
Dick Grable: <<joined the chat>>
Michael Davidson: Glad to see you Dick!
Dick Grable: Hello
Michael Davidson: I s there any reason not to make all servers accept the underscore (maybe not now, but in the future)
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<joined the chat>>
Michael Davidson: Salutations Bill, glad you could join us!
Bill Gram-Reefer: hi, what's the buzz
Rusty Tucker: The right thing to do is to encourage "Internet Legal" login ids. Then there is no confusion.
Michael Davidson: but the underscore or period can overcome all that (trying to force internet legal)
Rusty Tucker: Yep, just setup the account that way from the beginning is the best thing to do.
Rusty Tucker: Otherwise, there can be "name" collisions within User Manager.
Michael Davidson: True about the collisions
Bob Nunn: Can you fix the app to where it gives proper examples? I can fix my register page.
Michael Davidson: Unless User manager also made sure there is no bob dole and bob_dole
Rusty Tucker: I've been considering changing User Manger so that it rejects new accounts with spaces.
Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Nunn: That would help for us open systems. The close systems we can mandate
Michael Davidson: I think it would be best if TF Server accepted bob_dole=bob dole=bob.dole, although a pain for you, it would be nice for us :)
Michael Davidson: Hey Jim, how are you?
Jim Leary: OK, Anyone in here know anything about the WebStar/Cumulus setup?
Michael Davidson: no
Rusty Tucker: Wrong chat for a question like that :)
Michael Davidson: Rusty, on the Filter User Message script, does TF/user wait for a showmessage return?
mikael fredriksson: RT: then we have the problem with users with international characters in their names
Jim Leary: Dan told me that TF may support Cumulus. Is that true?
Rusty Tucker: It waits for returns on all the events.
Bill Gram-Reefer: JL, that sounds like a ? for comp.publish.prepress
Rusty Tucker: TF supports CGI's and W*API plug-ins. Do you want to setup Cumulus with TF or Web*?
Michael Davidson: I'm trying to have a sound play when some other user uses Michael Davidson, but I don't want to return anything to TF/User
mikael fredriksson: JL We have clients that use WS and cumulus at work
Rusty Tucker: MD , just make an empty return then.
Michael Davidson: I guess I ...right
Jim Leary: With the conflicts continuing between RT's new beta and Jon's plugs, I just thought a 3rd party program make make managing my photos easier without conflicts. To answer RT: Whatever does the most efficient job is what I want to use it with.
Michael Davidson: but I should user Filter User Message then not Auto Reply since that waits for text from me
Rusty Tucker: If its a CGI or Plugin, it should work with TeleFinder's Web Server.
Rusty Tucker: MD - right. Just don't return a string.
Michael Davidson: I tried that, I think :), but TeleFinder seemed to all but lock up...I'll have to re-examine it again.
Bob Nunn: JL: does Cumulus offer a PI now?
Jim Leary: PI
Dick Grable: <<left the chat>>
Bob Nunn: Plug-In = PI
Rusty Tucker: MD - the sample IM Filter.app in "-- A U T 0 - R E P L Y U S E R M E S S A G E ?" shows how to "do nothing"
Rusty Tucker: You just let the script fall through to "end".
Bob Nunn: I would think they would not since it would cut in to their very expensive program and price per user licensing.
Michael Davidson: Ok, I've only been looking at the chat app, but this morning I thought about looking at the I'm one
Jim Leary: I'm just getting into it this week. Don't know much yet. Dan says I can use TF and Cumulus together but I'm looking at all possibilities. Whatever serves our purposes best will win the job. We're growing too fast for constant conflicts and hours of extra work. I need the most automated and easy maintenance solution
Michael Davidson: I still haven't figured a fast way to get thru the 1000 spelling corrections quickly enough
Rusty Tucker: That will probably need a native code OSAX
Michael Davidson: I'm hoping, given that my list is alphabetical, I can take advantage of that
Rusty Tucker: You'd want to do a binary search then. Its too much to go into here, but its covered in lots of programming books.
Michael Davidson: maybe break it into smaller lists and then get out of the compare when the first letter is > the letter in the list
Bill Gram-Reefer: SO is RT going to follow Mozilla and cough up the source for TF User...seeing as all sort of new client capability is the rage?
Rusty Tucker: With a binary search, you start in the middle of the list, if the compare if > search in the top half only, and so on until you're done.
Rusty Tucker: BGR :)
Bill Gram-Reefer: it was a serious ?
Rusty Tucker: oh!
Michael Davidson: ok, I got it, I'm not a programmer, but I have lots of math and logic in my background. I know the routine
Rusty Tucker: I have doubts about how successful "free mozilla" will be.
Michael Davidson: Thanks for the tip Rusty
Rusty Tucker: Customers want a plug-n-play solution, not 20 Mbs of code to go compile, understand and tweak.
Bill Gram-Reefer: For sure, and maybe that's why not everyone is using Linux
Rusty Tucker: Its going to be interesting to see where mozilla ends up.
Bill Gram-Reefer: Yet, it appears there is some interest in extending TF User
Jim Smith: What applications can use Linux?
Michael Davidson: Rusty is giving us AppleEvents to help do that
Rusty Tucker: Primarily the Apache Web Server.
Rusty Tucker: I think the AppleEvents/Scripting approach is much more accessible than a pile of code.
Bill Gram-Reefer: OK. Uncle.
Jim Smith: RT: have you seen the new Dev. Connection-Support from apple? Cost $500 or $3500 year.
Michael Davidson: If we start taking advantage of what he has provided so far for AppleScripting, I'm sure he will add more Events
Bob Nunn: Same or worse. At least he has the weekly chats. But you will have to see for yourself.
Rusty Tucker: We're not partners anymore, we're a "profit center."
Rusty Tucker: + you need to pay $1500 for the privilege of sitting through the sales pitch err.. Developer Conference.
Jim Smith: Steve is back..
Jim Leary: Thanks for the input. Appreciate it
Rusty Tucker: It started long before him... but hey. MS is not too different.
Rick Palmer: <<joined the chat>>
Michael Davidson: Hey hey Rick, nice that you could join us!
Rick Palmer: I live
Jim Smith: MD: is your welcome a script?
Michael Davidson: yes
Jim Smith: VG
Bob Nunn: Got them variable greetings working. If I can see the code I think I might be able to produce a madam zelda fortune teller?
Rusty Tucker: Pretty soon will just send our bots to the chat for us :)
Michael Davidson: you guys are too unpredictable for that to work
Michael Davidson: I cannot really see how to implement auto reply to much except in terms of a Help bot
Bob Nunn: Fortune Telling?
Jim Smith: RT: you need to take a day or so off, so I can catch up with TF updates. :)
Michael Davidson: Now that's a good idea Bob Nunn.
Rusty Tucker: Help, IM Screening, Fortunes, Database lookups..
Bob Nunn: Analysis - remember the old Eliza program
Michael Davidson: yes, I know Eliza
Rusty Tucker: What do you mean "remember"
Michael Davidson: Database lookups ??
Rusty Tucker: Does it take you back to a "better" time?
Rusty Tucker: :)
Bob Nunn: and how does that make you feel about that
Michael Davidson: LOL
Rusty Tucker: Sure, why not keep an FAQ online, and be able to chat with it.
Michael Davidson: That's the help I mean Rusty
Bill Gram-Reefer: positronic heuristics for a FAQ?
Rusty Tucker: that's a database
Michael Davidson: Ok, I see.
mikael fredriksson: RT have you got any seeding of Allegro there are some cosmetic problems with TeleFinder user and Allegro (only uses small BW icons in conferences and file sections when you chose by date or by name)
Rusty Tucker: it doesn't need to be help data
Michael Davidson: So somebody could type Help Mail and it would return with a list of commands the the user can type to get more specific help on email
Jim Leary: <<left the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: I'll worry about it after they get to Beta MF
Rusty Tucker: MD - or it could parse the conversation
Rusty Tucker: same difference, just a little more human like
Michael Davidson: yea, maybe the latter would be more complicated though
Rusty Tucker: maybe :)
mikael fredriksson: RT its in Apples bug database ;)
Bill Gram-Reefer: Rusty's been reading too many Asimov robot novels<g>
Rick Palmer: I talked to a member ours that is using a Windows 98 pre release and he claimed TF didn't work under it....FYI
Jim Smith: RT: Q: I wanted to copy a file from a mac to a pc, uploaded it to TF user(mac) to TF server, then downloaded it from TF server to TF User(pc).
Rusty Tucker: JS - do that and you'll lose the resource fork
Bob Nunn: Why don't you just stick the PC disk in the mac Jim?
Jim Smith: Mac speed was about 28k and pc speed was 38K. Why?
Rusty Tucker: PC's are faster?
Jim Smith: it was a 7BM pc file.
Jim Smith: BM = MB
Rick Palmer: 7 bowel movements?
Bob Nunn: PC Zip disk in the Mac. I think that is equivalent:-)
Rick Palmer: sorry
Rusty Tucker: Especially when it comes to writing files. Nothing beats a file system in native code, and least not one that is 68k code being emulated by PPC.
Rusty Tucker: I've seen some reports that Allegro has more File System code as native PPC code, and is much faster
Rusty Tucker: any last Q's before lunch?
Bob Nunn: Still depends a lot on the machine though. The older Macs just have slower buses.
Bill Gram-Reefer: adios amigos
Jim Smith: Does the HFS+ still use the 68k file code?
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<left the chat>>
Michael Davidson: now tell me, if a user sent a help message like Help Email in a chat, then how difficult would it be to have the Help bot running on the server machine tell the users TF/User to open a help file about email for the user to see?
Jim Smith: <<left the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: It can't be done right now given the available apple events.
Andy Daws: <<joined the chat>>
Rick Palmer: bye all...working on a router and it calls
Michael Davidson: Hi Andy, how's it going?
Rick Palmer: <<left the chat>>
Bob Nunn: See you Friday. I have the log but your html is faster for me if you have it.
Michael Davidson: ok
Michael Davidson: bye Rick
Andy Daws: Hi all
Rusty Tucker: BN- I didn't get the logger started :(
Bob Nunn: No prob. See you Friday.
April 7, 1998
-- ©Copyright 1998, Spider Island Software