Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, December 5, 1997 11 AM PST.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Bob Nunn, Jim Smith, Bob Wright, Jim Leary, Bill Gram-Reefer, Ken Sutherland, Jonathan Paisley, Donald McHose, Rick Palmer
Rusty Tucker: <<joined the chat>>
Jim Smith: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Nunn: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Nunn: Hey
Bob Wright: <<joined the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: hola!
Jim Smith: Hi all
Rusty Tucker: just about ready to release 5.6!
Bob Wright: Greetings!
Bob Nunn: Was going to install the Beta last night but didn't get in till late. Maybe oughta wait.
Rusty Tucker: the next will be the "Freak" ( Final Release Candidate ) , no time limit
Bob Wright: Sure wish the author of HDS would show up. he never answers my email and now the HDS has expired :(
Rusty Tucker: also
Rusty Tucker: I put "Net Connect" for ADSP online in the utils folders
Rusty Tucker: It should still work, but I did not test it with sys 7.6 or 8
Bob Nunn: Thanks I think it might be handy until I get my ISDN hooked up.
Bob Nunn: Will definitely play with it this weekend and let you know if there is any problems. I have 8 up on all my systems now.
Jim Smith: BN: What BS-ISDN problem?
Bob Nunn: Bell South
Bob Nunn: They kicked the job to the engineering department and all you get is the clerks when you call. They say they are on top of it. Over a week on top of it.
Bob Wright: I played the "ISDN GAME" when I first got hooked up, too.
Bob Nunn: I have 5 lines going to my house and all the pairs are used. I will cancel two lines once they hook it up. I think they don't want to pull more lines. I would let them kill one and use the pair if that is the problem but you don't talk to who does the work
Bob Wright: Basically, the phone company did not have a good understanding of ISDN. I was one of their first customers
Jim Smith: Yea, they are like most of the tech-support, have problem takers to write problem up but don't know anything.
Bob Wright: RT: I have a real complicated problem here with the Alias situation.
Bob Nunn: Yup and that's were its at. I had a phone company buddy who says the guy just didn't want to pull the other line.
Bob Wright: RT: I have a folder called "NEWS" outside of the TF Server Folder.
Bob Wright: RT: Inside the NEWS folder are several Folders: teachers, Students, etc. each with their own set of aliases for different news items.
Bob Wright: RT: I have made an invisible link to the Main News folder.
Rusty Tucker: good so far
Bob Wright: RT: I still have users who are unable to post in some of the newsgroups. I am suspecting that I need to make my invisible link have settings of "can write to path" checked, correct?
Rusty Tucker: yes
Bob Wright: If not, I don't know what the problem is.
Bob Wright: ahhh...ok, Let me try that. :)
Rusty Tucker: make the invisible a Topics path, with posting privileges
Bob Wright: I just need to check posting privileges? Or also can write to path?
Bob Nunn: be back in a couple
Rusty Tucker: Can Write to Path should work
Rusty Tucker: also Create Topics if you want that
Bob Wright: Ok, I will check both. I thought that was my problem, just wanted to make sure.
Bob Wright: RT: are you aware of any problems with the TF Client and Quicktime?
Rusty Tucker: nope
Bob Wright: RT: hmm...sore some reason my mom's machine must not like quicktime then, because when I load TF, it wont open.
Bob Wright: But I have it here on my gateway w/no probs. But I don't have quicktime on the gateway
Rusty Tucker: how much mem is left
Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Wright: she has 32mb of memory.
Jim Smith: RT: what is the red 'brick' icon in TF client?
Bob Wright: it will load, but wont launch. Keeps giving me a windows segmentation fault.
Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: oh windoze
Ken Sutherland: good evening
Rusty Tucker: Did you put the QT16 in?
Rusty Tucker: and running 3.1b? of TF User?
Rusty Tucker: Win95 or 3.1?
Bob Wright: she has QT 2.0
Bob Wright: win 95 and the latest version of TF User
Rusty Tucker: get the QT from the BBS here,
Rusty Tucker: i think it is newer than 2.0, something like 2.01
Bob Wright: I'll check the net.
Bob Nunn: Bob W. you can ask Ken about HDS
Bob Wright: ok, thanks
Bob Nunn: Anyone look at my Madam Zelda?
Rusty Tucker: :( not yet, what's the url?
Bob Nunn: headgap.com/zelda.spml
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<joined the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: what brick icon?
Ken Sutherland: please note for all beta testers of Online Assistant For Telefinder should now use the release version, the beta key is valid
Bob Nunn: I probably stomped on some copyright stuff. Just wanted you to see it to make sure it was okay to be up or if I needed to do anything else with it.
Rusty Tucker: hmmm...
Rusty Tucker: is TeleFinder v5.6 ready for release?
A: Madam Zelda advises the outlook not so good !
Rusty Tucker: oh well!
Bob Nunn: At least she didn't give you the PMS response.
Ken Sutherland: also we have made arrangements with KAGI for payment after your demo key expires
Ken Sutherland: hahahaha
Rusty Tucker: i did get a "should be thinking about sex" resppnse
Rusty Tucker: JS - which brick icon?
Jonathan Paisley: <<joined the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: Hiya Jon!
Bob Nunn: Oops that should be shouldn't be thinking about sex all the time. I put that in in response to the usual questions
Bill Gram-Reefer: otherwise users will go blind?
Jonathan Paisley: hi folks! How's it going?
Ken Sutherland: what's wrong about thinking about it
Bob Nunn: Perhaps that should be a response as well based on the typical questions. Madam Zelda should be embarrassed.
Rusty Tucker: takes time away from doin' it, that's all
Jim Smith: While going thru the Sysop topics I got a red 'brick' icon for a few seconds then the beach ball icon, back to the brick then the beach ball, then a message 'network not responding'. I logged off and back on.
Rusty Tucker: oh, that
Bob Nunn: I think he is talking about the pause icon
Rusty Tucker: its a "red modem"
Bill Gram-Reefer: brick...<g>
Bob Wright: its the DOOM icon ;)
Rusty Tucker: meaning that there's a communications problem, very long lag, losing connection or TF hosed.
Jim Smith: OH :0
Bill Gram-Reefer: so b9 is good thru 12/26...but 5.6 should be available before that, eh?
Rusty Tucker: BTW - TF 5.6 will be online today as the demo version,expiration 1.25.98
Rusty Tucker: The FReC for sysops will be online today, no expiration date
Rusty Tucker: uses 5.5 reg codes
Ken Sutherland: <<left the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: I also posted docs for using the NetCloak PI w/ TF.
Rusty Tucker: You need version 5.6 of TF to work with their plug-in.
Jonathan Paisley: how do folks like the new file download features of the Mail Plugin 0.9b6?
Jim Smith: I still have a problem registering. If I try to register on my server mac it does not remember. So I have to take it to another mac run TF server and register, them move that copy to my server????
Jonathan Paisley: It stores the reg info in a preferences file in the prefs folder in the system folder
Rusty Tucker: I didn't get it online yet, I had heard that the demo had expired :(
Jonathan Paisley: Try deleting the existing preferences file and try again. It's possible its become corrupt
Jonathan Paisley: In this case, it won't be able to save the reg info over a quit/restart of the server
Jim Smith: The register problem is with TF server.
Bob Nunn: I hope you don't mind. TF for NetCloak. After reviewing it I took out a couple of errors in the html and optimized the graphics and sent it back up.
Rusty Tucker: Thanks!
Jonathan Paisley: oh ok
Jonathan Paisley: cool ;)
Rusty Tucker: You mean when you try and put your TF Reg code in, it doesn't save it?
Jim Smith: correct
Bob Nunn: Didn't get to it last night but if things slow down I may install it remotely this afternoon. Looking forward to it.
Rusty Tucker: that's a new one on me!
Rusty Tucker: it could be a HD directory problem
Rusty Tucker: or bad prefs file/settings file/plug-in conflict
Bob Wright: My TF is hosed about right now.
Jim Smith: as long as I have a work around it OK.
Bob Wright: I have about 10 people online chatting...and the only thing that is being spoken is TRASH. "..comma, aero...space...eight...five zero...."
Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Nunn: On Net Cloak, it looks like many of the "advanced" commands are built into TF already. I take it there are other useful features in it? Looks like you could included the rest of them in spml if you wanted?
Bob Wright: Why is it saying things like that? No one is typing those letters/symbols
Rusty Tucker: I'd restart it Bob
Bob Nunn: Someone has a notebook on the keyboard?
Bob Wright: Restart Server or Client?
Rusty Tucker: either
Rusty Tucker: depends on if others see the same
Bob Wright: well, they are still chatting so I am assuming the server is ok. But its talking JUNK.
Rusty Tucker: do your own msgs display correctly?
Bob Wright: yep, but what I type is not what is being spoken
Rusty Tucker: re NC, I think the only thing it has that's missing in TF are the "math" functions
Rusty Tucker: its missing a lot too. email, dir listings, conferences
Bob Wright: I quit TF User and things are ok now.
Bob Wright: that was really weird. Possible bug in speech manager or TF?
Rusty Tucker: It also has "global" vars. They're very similar to #includes. You can only set them through the NC interface, not in the page like the local vars.
Rusty Tucker: The local vars are like TF's vars
Bob Wright: Ken: so all I have to do is get HDS in the BBS Util and I will be back up and running?
Ken Sutherland: HDS? HDS email or OAT
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<joined the chat>>
Bob Wright: KS: HDS Email....heck, I would like both! ;)
Bill Gram-Reefer: whoa...most spectacular crash I've seen in sometime
Rusty Tucker: brb
Bob Nunn: Ken, when can we get on Kagi so you can get paid?
Ken Sutherland: Bob, its in the sysop area, tf cgi & plugins
Ken Sutherland: have registered with KAGI
Ken Sutherland: just waiting for the docs and the reg app
Bob Wright: i don't know what KAGI is. Sorry
Bob Nunn: So it will be a short while longer?
Ken Sutherland: within the week
Ken Sutherland: we will re-release the online assistant package to reflect the registration procedure
Jim Smith: Kagi is a fee collector of shareware.
Bob Nunn: Great. BobW. kagi.com allows us to pay for stuff in US dollars and Ken to get his money in local currency.
Ken Sutherland: eventually 8-)
Bob Wright: ahh...great!
Ken Sutherland: wonder who gets the interest
Ken Sutherland: 8-0
Bob Wright: Bill Gates ;)
Jim Smith: VERY SLOW
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<left the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: they've got a web site ( www.kagi.com ) and accept credit cards and keep some % I guess
Bill Gram-Reefer: kagi works the float
Bob Nunn: Them finance boys got it figured.
Ken Sutherland: You're telling me
Bob Nunn: Make it on both sides
Ken Sutherland: first time i ever had a yank CALL ME for once
Rusty Tucker: + they need to worry about charge backs too
Bill Gram-Reefer: they're ex bmuggers actually, one of the guys does contract work for apple
Ken Sutherland: (grin)
Rusty Tucker: :)
Rusty Tucker: shows how much there gonna skim it for
Jim Smith: It's cheaper that most other type clearing house.
Ken Sutherland: we will probably use them for all our products
Ken Sutherland: very true
Bob Nunn: What's next in line for you guys Ken?
Rusty Tucker: HDS MAIL!
Ken Sutherland: release of the tf email plugin
Bill Gram-Reefer: the real service they provide and is worth paying for is they have merchant account with bank where most smaller developers can'
Ken Sutherland: then maybe the FTP plugin
Rusty Tucker: thumbnailer?
Bill Gram-Reefer: don't have that leverage to accept credit cards
Rusty Tucker: exactly, its a B*tch to get one
Ken Sutherland: we have been asked by Apple to make it work with Apple's IP5 and EIMS/AIMS
Bob Nunn: I am tied between the thumbnailer and FTP. The thumbnailer would probably do the most for me at the office but I would like the FTP capabilities as well.
Rusty Tucker: Cherry Systems in the US will set almost anyone up for a hefty %
Jonathan Paisley: I'm working with Jim Leary as we speak on installing the thumbnailer
Jonathan Paisley: It works
Ken Sutherland: Would like to hear from sysops using non-tf mail solutions to get an idea on what we need to support
Jonathan Paisley: Rusty: Did you add the url-encoded filename to the dir.spml parameters?
Rusty Tucker: I started out doing CC's 3rd party, 10% per transaction, and he took off with $2k in un paid slips to boot!
Bob Wright: Ken: non-tf mail...like HDS?
Rusty Tucker: yep, its in 5.6 Jon
Bob Nunn: That may save me a tremendous amount of time. We have 30,000 sku's and probably from that close to 10,000 large format tiff images for catalog production.
Donald McHose: <<joined the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: BTW- they're expecting 2 inches of rain here tomorrow.
Jonathan Paisley: ok, can u remember off hand what the tag is?
Rusty Tucker: don't be surprised if our connection drops
Rick Palmer: <<joined the chat>>
Jim Smith: I have Popsicle about ready, but I do not see a need for it, can anyone see need for it?
Rusty Tucker: Its the same Jon, just has the encoding now
Jonathan Paisley: 'FILENAME' ?
Bill Gram-Reefer: gotstorunbye
Ken Sutherland: We plan eventually to expand HDS email to support tf's web server, WebStar and maybe Claris FileMaker, also the most popular mail servers\
Rusty Tucker: FILENAME
Bill Gram-Reefer: <<left the chat>>
Jonathan Paisley: ok Cool thanks.
Jonathan Paisley: The preview plugin works as follows:
Bob Wright: RT: how hard would it be to add a feature to chat like IRC where you can have an operator and toggle on/off can chat/cant chat?
Bob Nunn: Popsicle was for people with temporary links to the web to handle mail. I am sure there are a few people out there who would find it useful if you were to put it up.
Jonathan Paisley: You reference the URL FILENAME.pgif?100 and you get a 100x100 pixel GIF preview in 256 colors.
Rusty Tucker: Its available in the server right now from the "Node Menu"
Rusty Tucker: sweet
Rusty Tucker: ^^ -> BW
Ken Sutherland: for all to know, Apple has closed the development beta seeding service due to the large amount of piracy mainly from hotline sites
Rusty Tucker: ^-> JP
Bob Wright: RT: I mean toggle on/off for ALL users at any given time...'ccept those users who have op privileges
Jonathan Paisley: Rusty: Any ideas why the DESCRIPTION field isn't showing up properly in my modified dir.spml template?
Rusty Tucker: that's stupid, they should go after the pirates
Rusty Tucker: BW oic
Ken Sutherland: with dynamic ip, its a pain
Bob Nunn: Punish the class for that one kids misdeeds? What were they thinking...
Rusty Tucker: JP nope.
Ken Sutherland: Bob, it was getting ridiculous
Rusty Tucker: Right, maybe BW can figure that logic for us :)
Ken Sutherland: at lease i site had an exact copy
Ken Sutherland: was handy, much faster than apple's FTP server
Jonathan Paisley: rusty: What happens if the 'description' for a file also has a preview?
Bob Wright: There are times when you want everyone online to be quiet a few minutes
Jonathan Paisley: Does TF Web Server ignore the SitC comment?
Rusty Tucker: BW hmm, but you want to close chat to only certain users?
Rusty Tucker: what about IM's?
Rusty Tucker: JP, it uses the same code as the BBS
Bob Wright: here is what I am saying:
Rick Palmer: I'm sitting politely and quietly :)
Bob Wright: If I am talking about animals to a group. Soon the discussion become TUPOC SHAKKIR... all the kids change topic, I want to get attention, stop all the chit-chat and get back on topic
Jonathan Paisley: RT: But does that mean it'll not send the SitC comment if a PICT preview exists for a file?
Jonathan Paisley: RT: Sorry, probably not. It is strange though that it's not processing the description
Bob Nunn: Jon do u think that your program will work with tiff CMYK files of a good size if they have the previews available (Photoshop)
Jonathan Paisley: Yup
Jonathan Paisley: Hang on and I'll send you the whole shebang
Bob Nunn: Terrific. Will likely be a commercial customer for you on this one.
Rusty Tucker: BW OK, so you want to be able to talk to them, but not receive their input?
Bob Wright: RT: right...I want them to have to listen at times when I deem appropriate
Bob Wright: RT: a menu command which says something like "allow all to chat? YES or NO" or something like that
Rusty Tucker: that would take some work, there's nothing in Chat Server to support that presently
Bob Wright: RT: ok...just asking. :)
Rick Palmer: maybe you could use the UserManager and give permission to talk or listen...
Rusty Tucker: it would have to be a deal like one person is "moderator" of the chat room
Ken Sutherland: <<left the chat>>
Rusty Tucker: and can set privileges for the other users and new users coming in
Bob Wright: exactly: I just told a teacher we need a moderator :)
Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>
Donald McHose: If you figure it out via code ,work on a real time solution (face to face) for us at home ;-)
Bob Wright: don: hahaha
Rick Palmer: Rusty when you get a moment I'd like to clarify on the forms email deal I'm doing
Rusty Tucker: ga
Rusty Tucker: did u see my response in the conference?
Rick Palmer: I used yes
Rick Palmer: ..
Ken Sutherland: Rusty Q
Rick Palmer: Forms are new to me so...
Rusty Tucker: ok - a form is defined by the <form> </form> tags. anything between those tags is independent of other forms on a page
Rick Palmer: ok
Rick Palmer: that is the way web weaver constructed it and I wondered
Rusty Tucker: your sample has multiple independent forms
Rusty Tucker: the submit button is in a form by itself, so none of the other data is transmitted.
Rick Palmer: ok I think I have enough to fix for the moment
Rick Palmer: I'll see what I can do
Rusty Tucker: you just need to get rid of a bunch of <form> </form> tags and you'll be in biz
Rusty Tucker: ga KS
Rick Palmer: so I should delete the target statements at each field
Ken Sutherland: Any chance of a compilation web site for new sysops to see a good example of what TF can do, more of a typical example rather than the more tech pages we have now
Rick Palmer: ok
Rick Palmer: thanks man!
Jonathan Paisley: I think Bob Nunn's site does that rather well
Bob Nunn: I wish I could set up my sysop admin pages so others could see it. Guess I could do a dummy demo group up.
Rusty Tucker: hmm, maybe I should put those admin pages into the demo?
Ken Sutherland: I'm not criticizing, its just that we have a great product, why not shout a bit louder
Ken Sutherland: shout a bit louder
Bob Nunn: The ones I sent up are a bit rough but the need for those are really valid. I still need a better way to track web stats though. I agree with Ken though. I would be willing to help if you come up with an alternative site.
Bob Wright: Time to head out for the weekend. Catch you all later.
Bob Wright: <<left the chat>>
Jonathan Paisley: let me know how you get on with the plugin
Rusty Tucker: The best alt web site is the TF Demo. They can boot it up and try it live rather than a "look but don't touch" sample.
Bob Nunn: I will. This is my busy time so unless something slows down I wont have a lot of time. Perhaps my MIS guy can play with it as well?
Rusty Tucker: I'd put them in "as-is" , call' em Bob Nunn's Quick and Dirty admin pages.
Rick Palmer: I can attest to that....I found out a bunch of stuff that I didn't know when I went in to look for mailargs examples....I'm a no manual sorta guy
Jonathan Paisley: Yah, do what you like with it
Jonathan Paisley: It'll stop working in a month or two
Rick Palmer: but the demo site is really good
Rusty Tucker: Make a page that intros and describes the admin pages, how and why you put them together, and its a very cool demo!
Bob Nunn: Will work on it some. I think it would be more useful if there was a demo page like that.
Jim Smith: RT: A while back u said something about a HTML editor, what was it?
Rusty Tucker: Oh < DreamWeaver from Macromedia?
Rusty Tucker: weeks ago? or today?
Jim Smith: That it's, weeks.
Ken Sutherland: catch u later, time to eat
Rick Palmer: Rusty I just looked at the form....I don't see any <form> just </form> is the start of the forms statement the --<FORM ACTION="SWBell1.spml" METHOD="POST"
Donald McHose: <<left the chat>>
Ken Sutherland: <<left the chat>>
Bob Nunn: I guess I need to get back to it as well. Catch you next time. Leave up the log Rusty and I ll get it up tonite.
December 5, 1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software