TeleFinder Chat Log

Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, November 25, 1997 11 AM PST.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,

Sysops: Mikael Fredriksson, Bob Wright, Jim Leary, Jim Smith, Bob Nunn, Michael Davidson, Ken Sutherland,

mikael fredriksson: <<joined the chat>>

Bob Wright: <<joined the chat>>

Bob Wright: Greetings!

Mikael Fredriksson: Hi!

Bob Wright: I talked with Bob N earlier and he said he would be here

Mikael Fredriksson: Ok

Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>

Bob Wright: Everyone is quiet today.

Mikael Fredriksson: Yes waiting and waiting for Rusty

Bob Wright: I talked with Bob N today around 10:00 EST and he said that he

(Bob N) would be here.

Jim Leary: guess some people have to work

Bob Wright: Is anyone using the Online Assistant?

Mikael Fredriksson: No, only use their www mail plugin

Jim Leary: <<left the chat>>

Bob Wright: Yes, I used that to. Its very nice. I hope they get another

release out before Dec. 4.

Mikael Fredriksson: I will need a new serial number before that..

Bob Wright: How is your server connected to the net?

Jim Smith: <<joined the chat>>

Mikael Fredriksson: on 256k line at work, used to have a 64k leased line to

my home

Bob Wright: that sounds nice....I am using an ISDN line (128k) here.

Mikael Fredriksson: hi Jim!

Jim Smith: Hi!

Bob Wright: Is Rusty going to make it today? Or is he always a bit late?

Mikael Fredriksson: I missed the internet speed when I moved my system to

work so now I have a ISDN line at home to call work

Bob Wright: I wish I had an ISDN line at home! :-)

Bob Nunn: <<joined the chat>>

Jim Leary: <<joined the chat>>

Michael Davidson: <<joined the chat>>

Michael Davidson: Hi all!

Mikael Fredriksson: ISDN prices went down a lot the last year first 100.000

SEK in may 97 it was 8000 SEK and now 1900 SEK (divide by 7.6 and you get the

$$$) I live in the country side 20 min. drive from Gothenburg Sweden

Mikael Fredriksson: Hi

Bob Nunn: Hey

Bob Nunn: Was everyone late or is it just me?

Mikael Fredriksson: In town ISDN was 3000 SEK last year

Michael Davidson: Hey Bob, got your ISDN "pulled" and running?

Michael Davidson: I definitely was late

Bob Wright: someone pull me an ISDN line to my house 8-)

Bob Nunn: Well they told me it was. They had a problem and didn't pull it.

They gave me a $25 credit and are supposed to get back to it.

Michael Davidson: I should be getting my 63K cable modem installed any day

now ($40 month)

Bob Nunn: I think it is the Pit Bull next door where the pole is.

Michael Davidson: Get them a 12 pack Bob, maybe that will get them to do it.

Bob Wright: haha

Bob Nunn: Give the Pit Bull a 12 pack and maybe he'll let them in the yard

Michael Davidson: That bull could hamper progress a little

Bob Nunn: I shooting for Thanksgiving weekend to be up and running now.

Bob Wright: Which ISDN Terminal are you using?

Michael Davidson: I won't be "up and running" much this weekend...not after

Thanksgiving dinner anyway! :)

Bob Nunn: Bell South and an ASCEND box.

Michael Davidson: 128 Bob?

Bob Nunn: My ISP is a small company called WorldSpice and I got a buddy price

for the monthly charge. Nope 64k is all I can afford.

Bob Nunn: Beats my present 33.6k modem dedicated though.

Michael Davidson: Does anybody here use cable modem yet?

Bob Wright: 101.00 a month here for my ISDN line.

Bob Wright: 101.00 a month for my ISDN line.

Bob Nunn: I could have one but they really don't want to get into the

dedicated line business

Michael Davidson: $40 bucks a month for 63K seems too cheap for me to pass up

Michael Davidson: Wow, 101 a month is the cheapest I have ever heard of ISDN,

twice as cheap!

Bob Wright: that's 101.00 for 128k

Bob Nunn: Do you have dedicated IP addresses?

Bob Wright: I have a class C license with the 101.00 a month

Michael Davidson: Wow, that's almost unbelievable

Michael Davidson: Where do you live Bob W?

Bob Wright: Unlimited access.

Bob Nunn: That is a good price. I pay slightly more than that.

Bob Nunn: And only 64k at that.

Bob Wright: I live in the Eastern part of Virginia, USA.

Bob Nunn: Sounds like you got a break even price from someone trying to make

his T1 payments

Bob Wright: I get such a good price because I connect to the local NPR

(National Public Radio) which offers discounts for schools.

Jim Leary: $101???? Is that what you pay for ISDN on a home computer? or are

we talking your place of business??

Jim Smith: Bob: Get ip-net-monitor, in the Sysop File: Misc; it has a very

good tcp/ip monitor which will show speed.

Michael Davidson: o, I figured it must be something special

Bob Nunn: Yep I uploaded the latest version that is up on SI. Good program.

Bob Wright: The connection is for the school system...if I did it for my

house I would pay 30.00 a month PLUS .02 a minute.

Jim Smith: That was one for the things I miss about FreePPP.

Michael Davidson: .02 a minute adds up for full time connection

Bob Nunn: I pay $29.95 a month no limit and $125 for my net connect.

Jim Leary: Ahh. Whew...I thought you were doing that for home use. I was

going to tell you to get out more often

Bob Wright: Well, soon I will be connecting from home at 10mb a second for

35.00 a month unlimited time

Michael Davidson: So B Nunn, how many clients do you isp with the 64K line?

Bob Nunn: I am really only a hobby system. I have a few people who donate to

the cause. I have 3 small business who are up on my site.

Bob Wright: Local cable company is starting to offer cable modems with

internet access for 35.00 a month

Michael Davidson: Sounds good. Do they use PPP to dial your system or TF

Jim Leary: I just pay $20/month, unlimited access with a regular modem. Its

enough for my purposes. By the time 56K or ISDN is commonplace, the price

will be way down and I'll grab it then. I can't see paying any more $$$ to

get on the internet

Bob Nunn: Cruising the net is one thing but running a web server is the deal

for me.

Michael Davidson: But if you need a full time dedicated connection Jim, you

can't get it for $20 month

Jim Leary: I work for someone, so at the office (which is where i am), I

don't worry about those expenses. At home, I can't see a need for any more

than i already have

Bob Wright: I teach for a local college in town who provides me with FREE

internet access (33.6) from home. I have never paid for Internet access. ;0

Michael Davidson: Bob Nunn, do your business clients use PPP to dial into

your system or what

Bob Nunn: Nope, I am not looking to do that yet.

Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>

Michael Davidson: I am too Bob, that's why I asked.

Bob Wright: I have schools calling into me getting PPP access.

Michael Davidson: Anybody here using VIG ??

Bob Wright: I use VIG

Michael Davidson: Using what hardware/software Bob W

Bob Nunn: Are you running it on the same server

Jim Leary: Great. I'm sure the reason is that you use internet for some work

related tasks. I don't, and again that $20/month gives me what I need. Anyone

paying much more than that for home use, really needs to see the great

outdoors more often and enjoy life a lit

Michael Davidson: O, how do you like it?

Jim Leary: a bit

Bob Wright: I have a Power Mac 6100 for the PPP access. It used to be the

old TF Server until I upgraded.

Michael Davidson: VIG that is

Bob Wright: Jim: nope, I use internet at home for pleasure only.

Bob Nunn: I got to duck out guys work calls be back if I can. Have to make

some large file copies

Bob Nunn: <<left the chat>>

Bob Wright: I put an accelerator into the 6100 so it runs at 88 mhz.

Michael Davidson: Bob W, so you use VIG to allow for PPP access too your

system?

Bob Wright: Michael D: I use VIG to allow PPP access to my network.

Michael Davidson: Do you wish you had a hardware solution for PPP instead of

VIG, or are you happy with VIG?

Jim Leary: Well, I really needed some info from Jon and/or Rusty, but I guess

they have some work to do and that is where i should be instead of silly talk

about internet access. After all, unless its for work, it really should just

be a hobby, not an obsession. Goo

Michael Davidson: PPP access to your network, but you don't allow for PPP

access to the internet thru your system?

Jim Leary: <<left the chat>>

Jim Smith: <<left the chat>>

Bob Wright: I am happy with VIG, but I would take a CISCO PPP server any day.

Right now the machine functions well, but I need more ports for access.

Bob Wright: Jim: everyone has opinions, but I don't see where any of this is

silly.

Michael Davidson: Do you have a 3 port license

Michael Davidson: or do you mean physical ports?

Bob Wright: I have unlimited nodes.

Bob Wright: yes, physical ports

Bob Wright: I only have 4 hurdler ports and two other ports for access.

Michael Davidson: 6100 is hurting you there

Bob Wright: but I have 16 schools who need the access

Bob Wright: actually the 6100 handling the load just fine

Michael Davidson: but it doesn't have enough expandability for more hurdlers

Bob Wright: right, that is why I would like a CISCO PPP server.

Michael Davidson: And a few other reasons!! :)

Bob Wright: of course! :)

Michael Davidson: Anyway, I am Very seriously getting VIG now that I have a

cable modem

Bob Wright: soon the strain wont be so bad on the ISDN line here, because the

schools are getting sparc stations and I am going to set them up for Caching

when they surf the net.

Bob Wright: Michael D: you will like VIG. its VERY easy to set up.

Michael Davidson: That's what I need. Is the support good. Their web page is

very nicely done...lot's of details explained

Michael Davidson: Do you have version 4 of VIG?

Bob Wright: Its good to see Ken Sutherland here....I need a registration code

for Online Assistant. I have sent three email requests and have not heard

back from anyone.

Michael Davidson: Ken........... :)

Bob Wright: The support I don't think is all that good. I mean you will get

to talk to someone, but they don't know that much about networking.

Michael Davidson: Anybody possibly have a 10 Base T hub for sale

Bob Wright: I have version 3.7.4

Ken Sutherland: bob, give me an alt mail address please

Bob Wright: right now 4 people are connected and surging the net hard. The

Max throughput on the machine is only hitting at 60%

Bob Wright: Ken: rwright@pps.k12.va.us

Michael Davidson: I attempted to buy a used 3.5.2 version (2 port), but the

guy never got back to me.

Bob Nunn: <<joined the chat>>

Bob Nunn: I'm back

Bob Wright: I would not get anything under 3.7

Michael Davidson: wow, that's great Bob. So, you do allow them access to the

internet thru your system, not just to your network

Bob Nunn: Irritating when someone wants you do work

Michael Davidson: Yes, I was definitely going to upgrade immediately to

version 4

Bob Wright: Michael D: right...they can access the network or the internet

Michael Davidson: Yea Bob, especially when you are working so hard at not

working

Bob Nunn: Now we know who to call when we need help configuring VIG

Bob Wright: actually I am working VERY HARD right now; I am conducting a LIVE

ONLINE chat on my TF server with some kids on my other computer.

Michael Davidson: That's Wright...he gave us his email address even

Bob Wright: I have four schools and 189 kids online who are all chatting with

me on my server.

Bob Wright: yes, you can email me...if I can help ya I will

Bob Nunn: Screen dumps of configured systems work wonders. I never would

have gotten newsgroups set up with out them.

Michael Davidson: So with a 63K cable modem, and VIG, I want to provide ISP

services to a few customers. How many sounds reasonable....I want to recoup

some of my costs

Ken Sutherland: <<left the chat>>

Bob Nunn: Hey Ken, after OA. Probably a few hundred people depending on how

many dial in lines you have

Bob Wright: is VIG going to run on an independent machine?

Bob Wright: The little kids here want to know if they celebrate Thanksgiving

in Sweden...?

Michael Davidson: Probably on the same machine that TF runs on

Bob Wright: Well, that might slow it down a bit and I would not add more than

4-6 users for VIG.

Michael Davidson: That is what I was hoping

Bob Wright: Netscape users will be your biggest offenders. Imagine four

people on a 28.8 link. Now imagine the same at 63K.

Michael Davidson: One more big question, why not go with Vicom SoftRouter

instead of VIG?

Bob Nunn: Assuming you have 4 to 6 accesses for VIG you could support 4 or

more times that since though.

Bob Nunn: Not everyone gets on at once.

Bob Nunn: In theory.

Bob Wright: I used VIG because I had a machine I did not know what to do with

which had a hurdler card installed.

Bob Nunn: How many ports are set up Bob?

Rusty Tucker: <<joined the chat>>

Bob Wright: They all get on here at once....!

Michael Davidson: I can dedicate a machine to VIG, but I was hoping not too

Bob Wright: I have five ports.

Michael Davidson: :)

Michael Davidson: Maybe you need my 4 port hurdler scsi box Bob W

Bob Wright: Sure, send it to me...I take donations ;-()

Bob Nunn: $10 bucks a month limited access for 25 users. $250 income.

Rusty Tucker: hola! another school event today

Michael Davidson: Hi rusty

Bob Nunn: Don't miss a one Rusty, they grow up fast

Rusty Tucker: u bet!

Michael Davidson: So, what do you loose by using VIG instead of a hardware

solution, anything that users will suffer from?

Bob Wright: Well, you get an OS which crashes often

Michael Davidson: Is VIG unstable?

Bob Wright: I restart the mac about once a week...I know there is a problem

with VIG because this machine was my old TF server and it never went down...I

mean NEVER.

Ken Sutherland: <<joined the chat>>

Michael Davidson: or are you just referring to MacOS

Bob Wright: Of course tech support denies any problems

Michael Davidson: Once a week is not bad at all.

Bob Wright: no, I think there is a VIG or OS problem.

Ken Sutherland: sorry about that, my ppp failed and refused to restart

Michael Davidson: Rusty, what do you loose by using VIG instead of a

hardware solution, anything that users will suffer from?

Bob Wright: I like to think in terms of once a month for restarts.

Bob Wright: anything less than that is not acceptable for me.

Rusty Tucker: I read that First Class Internet Review !

Bob Nunn: Was going to ask you Ken what you guys will concentrate on next

once OA is final.

Michael Davidson: I wish to think once a month.

Rusty Tucker: Man they really dumped on FC

Ken Sutherland: rusty, new feature request>>>>

Bob Nunn: Yep but from what I here from my buddies they deserved most of it.

May convert a few if this keeps up.

Michael Davidson: Where was that, in MacWorld Rusty?

Rusty Tucker: yes its online

Michael Davidson: I'll check it out for kicks

Michael Davidson: How many stars did it get?

Rusty Tucker: 3

Ken Sutherland: a super nova

Bob Wright: FC is icky, IMHO

Rusty Tucker: I think they called it useless

Michael Davidson: Those fools. They trash something, give it three stars.

They praise something beyond believe, they give it 4, maybe

Michael Davidson: Believe-belief

Bob Wright: Rusty: question for ya: If I had an icon selected for a path

and I no longer what an icon at all, I cant not change it to blank (i.e No

Icon). Its a small thing, but just thought you would like to know.

Rusty Tucker: yeah 2 stars means its dangerous :)

Bob Nunn: I never buy anything with 2 and you have to watch the 3 stars.

Kinda relative though. Depends a lot on your personal needs.

Ken Sutherland: Rusty, could you add a new feature to the user manager so we

could have a access group with a restriction on the mail account, ie i want

to stop some users being able to receive file attachments

Michael Davidson: But then they give word 4 stars....yeh right!

Rusty Tucker: I think I put the default icons in UM so you can select those

Bob Wright: Rusty, but when I make an access for internal aliases, I don't

need an icon, but the UM would not let me set it to blank.

Bob Nunn: Bob W is using an older version Rusty.

Bob Wright: its an aesthetic thing, but when I look at the screen, the only

icons I want to see are the ones that users see

Michael Davidson: Maybe we need a transparent icon

Bob Wright: Bob N: no, I am using 5.6b3

Rusty Tucker: Its OK, it doesn't affect performance at all

Bob Wright: err.. I mean b8

Bob Nunn: Oops you do got the new one.

Bob Wright: right, I said it was a little issue :)

Rusty Tucker: maybe I'll make the name of internal paths in italics

Michael Davidson: What about having a way to set the default gateway

depending on the access group; wouldn't that be handy?

Bob Wright: also, it would be nice if when someone deletes an email with an

attachment, it also deletes the file from the attachment folder.

Bob Wright: <<left the chat>>

Michael Davidson: Or asks if they want to delete the attachment would be

better

Bob Nunn: I wouldn't like erasing the attachment automatically.

Bob Nunn: Perhaps the choice would be okay.

Rusty Tucker: yeah, that might surprise a few :)

Bob Nunn: Some of the early internet mail programs I used would do that.

Michael Davidson: But you would have to work the choice in with the "Are you

sure you want to delete" message

Bob Nunn: Probably mess up Ken's feature of auto-mailbox cleaning.

Michael Davidson: Speaking of dialog boxes, when one hits the mail button

and is not connected, you get two dialog boxes, which should be combined into

one.

Rusty Tucker: I'll check that out

Bob Nunn: Speaking as one who is ignorant of the latest Windoze TF version

does it support attachments now?

Rusty Tucker: yep, either 2.5 or 3 added that

Rusty Tucker: 3.1 adds Find File

Bob Nunn: And it properly handles all attachment types now?

Rusty Tucker: ?

Ken Sutherland: Rusty, how about the limiter request!

Rusty Tucker: I'm not sure how that would be implemented

Bob Nunn: Someone complaining about having to binhex stuff. I will find out

more about it. Why do they call it apple double if apple has nothing to do

with it.

Ken Sutherland: the wonders of eworld

Rusty Tucker: hmm don't know about binhex.,

Rusty Tucker: there was a time when mail server would binhex attachments for

a POP3 mail boxy

Rusty Tucker: now it uses MIME

Ken Sutherland: time to go, if i can stay awake will be back later

Ken Sutherland: night

Rusty Tucker: They must've been using POP3, not the win client

Michael Davidson: I better go too. See ya all later.

Ken Sutherland: <<left the chat>>

Bob Nunn: I will find out more about it. I don't have ready access to a

windows machine and it makes me happy except for the occasional question.

Rusty Tucker: If their using TF, the attachments are stored in the native

file format

Michael Davidson: <<left the chat>>

Bob Nunn: We get international traffic. The Chinese version of Word etc is a

lot of the problem.

Rusty Tucker: :)

Bob Nunn: It could be the type of servers the mail gets routed thru

Bob Nunn: Gotta go. Put the logs up please. See you next time.

Bob Nunn: <<left the chat>>

Rusty Tucker: I guess that's it!

Rusty Tucker: Did you keep a log Mikael?

Mikael Fredriksson: Yes I think I have it

Rusty Tucker: I think I have part of today, if you

Rusty Tucker: have it, please email it to me.

Mikael Fredriksson: How do i get it to save the chat window...