Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, October 24, 1997 11 AM PDT.
In attendance:
From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker,
Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Jim Smith, Ken Sutherland, Bob Nunn, Donald McHose
Rusty Tucker: Hi Jim!
Rusty Tucker: hey
Jim Smith: Hi Rusty.
Michael Davidson: Hi Rusty, Jim.
Michael Davidson: I didn't think you were going to be here today Rusty. How did the conference go?
Rusty Tucker: It was pretty good. got a lot of insight into what different newspapers want to do online.
Michael Davidson: Cool. that would be an important market.
Rusty Tucker: I made a little presentation about what I though would be a good approach - kind of a combination Hotmail/Newsite/BBS/ISP
Michael Davidson: Did you get any potential customer leads ?
Michael Davidson: How did that go over?
Rusty Tucker: The people there are mostly TF users to begin with
Michael Davidson: O, that's not bad either
Rusty Tucker: Good, got a lot of heads scratching :)
Michael Davidson: LOL
Michael Davidson: ISP seems like a weird component, but I use an ISP that is from a newspaper
Ken Sutherland: good evening all
Rusty Tucker: The ISP component is important now since Web Access is not universal yet
Michael Davidson: The BBS component would be real nice too for local newspaper subscribers
Rusty Tucker: Once it is, they can drop that part
Bob Nunn: I agree and the pieces are getting cheaper to get there. I would love to be able to offer a low cost or free access to the local kids.
Rusty Tucker: For smaller papers I would offer free dial-up TCP access to the local data/email only
Michael Davidson: Are many newspapers into becoming ISP's (like i said, I use one that is)
Rusty Tucker: Yes, as it turns out Knight-Ridder is into the ISP biz a little bit to
Donald McHose: The N.C Charlotte Observer has become a rather large one
Michael Davidson: Is that Knight-Rider, the communications program of old?
Rusty Tucker: They made a presentation about their sites ( SJ-Merc etc ) that was pretty close to my own thoughts.
Michael Davidson: or is that a newspaper chain
Rusty Tucker: They're a news paper publisher, very big
Jim Smith: The local newspaper, which is part of Knight-Ridder, does, however its king of sub for KR.
Jim Smith: kind - king
Michael Davidson: What main component do they want from TF Rusty that it doesn't yet have?
Rusty Tucker: As I was doing research for the presentation I found out that HOTMAIL is now bigger than AOL!
Michael Davidson: whoa...and I know almost nothing about hotmail...tell me something about it
Bob Nunn: And AOL has them in their filter list for spam still
Rusty Tucker: Something like 8 Million + subscribers!
Rusty Tucker: :) surprised not at all!
Rusty Tucker: Filtering them as a competitor more likely
Rusty Tucker: Hotmail is your email on via a web browser, much like HDS mail for TF
Ken Sutherland: could that be anti-competitive practice ?
Rusty Tucker: its free, supported by advertising
Michael Davidson: Wait a minute, I used to get a lot of junk mail from hotmail sites....so, although it is probably true about AOL, hotmail seems to send lots of spam
Bob Nunn: They are one of the rampant spam producers. I don't they do much to qualify their users.
Donald McHose: sounds like a web version of Juno
Rusty Tucker: yep that's it
Rusty Tucker: There's lot and lots of legitimate hotmail users though
Rusty Tucker: and getting more so
Michael Davidson: yeah, I'm sure there are...out of 8 million...I didn't get that much hotmail spam :)
Michael Davidson: Again, Rusty, What main component do they want from TF Rusty that it doesn't yet have?
Rusty Tucker: AOL should talk about SPAM, ever visit their Conference areas?!
Rusty Tucker: The component s I think you need are:
Rusty Tucker: - a strong OS to support a high volume commercial system
Rusty Tucker: - PPP access w/ firewalling on a per user basis
Rusty Tucker: - "BBS" components in the web server ( got that )
Rusty Tucker: - really good web based email ( getting that :) )
Rusty Tucker: - good web based chat ( haven't seen it anywhere yet )
Rusty Tucker: - an automated business end for advertising and user tracking
Rusty Tucker: - a listserver
Rusty Tucker: - some offline search agents as a service to the users.
Rusty Tucker: - personal web sites so each user can create their own
Rusty Tucker: That would about cover it. If there was a 'turn-key' solution for this, I think it would be a good sell to newspaper sites.
Michael Davidson: Wow...If I gave you 3 months, could you come to a site and set this up with current software?
Rusty Tucker: brb
Bob Nunn: Where would you get the strong OS? Everything else can be done sort of.
Ken Sutherland: could we have FUN
Bob Nunn: Depends on the budget
Michael Davidson: sort of is a lot of the problem
Ken Sutherland: yup,yup,yup
Ken Sutherland: BEOS?
Bob Nunn: I have most of what he has listed with the exception of the listserver. I use mail forwarding to serve lists now but they are not elegant to adjust and maintain.
Rusty Tucker: Maybe, I'm going to be talking with a couple of the other folks from the conference about this next week.
Michael Davidson: Why would a newspaper choose TF as a main component to do the setup as outlined by Rusty?
Rusty Tucker: Selling MacOS is the hard-part.
Bob Nunn: Because nothing else is any closer...
Rusty Tucker: I'm pretty sure you need to sell it on Unix or NT
Donald McHose: ouch
Bob Nunn: Both likely.
Rusty Tucker: Unfortunately that's the reality of the Commercial site market
Michael Davidson: But Rusty, one main component that TF on a Mac can offer small to kind of large companies is the ease of setup and maintenance and that is VERY important
Rusty Tucker: I think so too.
Rusty Tucker: Otherwise you spend all your profits on maintenance.
Michael Davidson: Maybe you can't get the huge companies because of Mac, but get the less than huge ones
Michael Davidson: and breakdowns and configuring and ....
Bob Nunn: The system integrates well with our NT, and our UNIX system is a ways away still. We are converting to a Progress Based Unix System from our old HP mainframe
Rusty Tucker: The problem is MS and Netscape will be trying to sell into the same accounts
Michael Davidson: You haven't included the PPP ISP part above...
Michael Davidson: Yes, that could be a real problem.
Michael Davidson: So what does TF have that MS and NS doesn't. The wonderful interface (that beginners can start out on).
Michael Davidson: Ease of use and ease of setup should be your focus, IMHO.
Rusty Tucker: just a sec
Rusty Tucker: ok
Rusty Tucker: I'd use dht PPP hardware and modem banks
Michael Davidson: Let newbies log onto a TF bbs interface, from there they can go where they want on the net.
Michael Davidson: dht??
Rusty Tucker: the
Michael Davidson: I'd make TF/User and Server talk PPP, Server would be a small ISP.
Rusty Tucker: The good thing is that Macs totally DOMINATE the press rooms, and they won't give em up!
Rusty Tucker: And close to 50% of web sites are made by mac ( according to Web Week )
Donald McHose: Wish that would translate into printed words.
Michael Davidson: That is a great thing . I've heard that percentage too Rusty...emphasize that in the sell
Rusty Tucker: Serving %'s are something else though.
Rusty Tucker: Just take a look at netcraft sometime
Rusty Tucker: Apache, Netscape, MS and everybody else fights for the 10% that's left over
Ken Sutherland: we are developing a plugin for VIG that uses user manager for pap, also working on Radius if that helps?
Rusty Tucker: I think that helps big time
Rusty Tucker: especially the RADIUS part
Donald McHose: amen
Ken Sutherland: we need a hybrid solution for the clients
Rusty Tucker: Then you can work with the PPP hardware
Michael Davidson: What TF sysops are currently using the PPP hardware (Vicom)
Ken Sutherland: brotho
Ken Sutherland: most
Donald McHose: We have a sonic box( limited at best but problem free)
Rusty Tucker: Vig might work if you want to be a 10 line ISP, maybe more
Michael Davidson: Are there 3 PPP hardware solutions? sonic, Vicom, and the one from Jose?
Rusty Tucker: Does it do real routing , or just spoofing?
Ken Sutherland: also tribal link 2 & 8
Ken Sutherland: nice and smooth
Ken Sutherland: smooth
Rusty Tucker: The PPP server they're selling to Keyspan spoofs, I think you need real routing
mikael fredriksson: Hi!
Ken Sutherland: hi
Donald McHose: hey
Ken Sutherland: why not standardize the recommended setup rusty
Michael Davidson: Any real routing solutions out of the 4 ppp hardware/software choices?
Ken Sutherland: at least we would have a reference to work from
Rusty Tucker: Tribe is real
Rusty Tucker: 2 or 4 ports only though
Rusty Tucker: ( i think )
Ken Sutherland: tribelink 8
Ken Sutherland: £800
Michael Davidson: That might work for me, 8 would be the most I would want
Rusty Tucker: and it does radius , right Ken?
Michael Davidson: is that $1000
Ken Sutherland: $1200
Ken Sutherland: hang as many tribes as you need
Michael Davidson: So, is Tribe the only real routing choice?
Michael Davidson: as many as you can afford, that is :)
Ken Sutherland: configure via TCP and Netscape
Rusty Tucker: There's a lot of solutions for ISPs... big time stuff, real cool
Rusty Tucker: Ken what about RADIUS for Tribe?
mikael fredriksson: I used a Tribelink 8 on my setup at home worked without any problems
mikael fredriksson: yes it does use radius
Rusty Tucker: good deal
Michael Davidson: so clue me in, what if I went with a non-real routing solution (spoofing??)
Michael Davidson: What would I loose
Ken Sutherland: rusty uses portmaster, another good product, up to 30 lines per box
Rusty Tucker: Drew at MacConnect was telling me about a totally digital modem bank, completely remote manageable
Michael Davidson: So multiple tribelink 8's is the best solution now
Rusty Tucker: and just 1 wire set into the wall!
mikael fredriksson: But it only can use 56 k on the serial ports if you use it as a 8 port
Rusty Tucker: Can you do multiple Tribes?
Donald McHose: Sounds like USR's sys.
Ken Sutherland: is that the Ascend box?
Michael Davidson: Was that the tribelink you spoke of mikael?
Rusty Tucker: It probably is
mikael fredriksson: Yes Tribelink 8
Rusty Tucker: Full digital to the Telco
Michael Davidson: I could live with that
Ken Sutherland: K56 all the way
Rusty Tucker: only the client side to Telco is analog, then full digital inside the Telco and Telco to you
Ken Sutherland: Q. is access via power lines available in the USA?
Michael Davidson: So what kind of service line do you need for a tribelink 8
Donald McHose: no
mikael fredriksson: And it can handle 400 accounts without a radius server
Ken Sutherland: anything from 64K up
Rusty Tucker: 400 is not enough for me
mikael fredriksson: Then you need a Radius server...
Donald McHose: Right now only the Brits have it and they are not planning to import at this time ,so I've heard
Donald McHose: export I mean
Rusty Tucker: Oh, that make sense 400 internal or unlimited via server
Michael Davidson: 400 is enough for many though
Ken Sutherland: we will have it within next 12 months
Michael Davidson: Where can I get a lot more info about Tribelink 8
Ken Sutherland: full digital access, speed unknown
Ken Sutherland: goto there site
Donald McHose: That is going to be a trip.I cannot wait to hear how it does.An old idea coming to age
Michael Davidson: (I guessed that Ken) What is their company name? Tribelink?
Rusty Tucker: http://www.tribe.com/
Donald McHose: Were is it I've done a search to no avail
Michael Davidson: Thanks Rusty
Rusty Tucker: still loading, don't know for sure yet
Ken Sutherland: tribe offers full TCP and AppleTalk over TCP, nice for IP5
mikael fredriksson: http://www.zoomtel.com/
Ken Sutherland: zoom bought them a year ago
Ken Sutherland: never improved them though
Michael Davidson: thanks mikael
Michael Davidson: I am not a lover of zoom, at all
Bob Nunn: Glad to hear that. Might have made them typical zoom quality.
Michael Davidson: Why should I not go with Vicom instead of tribelink
Bob Nunn: Comes down to scale and budget I would think.
Ken Sutherland: rusty, custom tool request, 1 that would start a ppp hookup and then log onto TF, all configured via TF and a easy setup, your ideas
Ken Sutherland: VIG is a software solution, not as efficient
Rusty Tucker: Seems like just clicking the "connect" button in TF, or do you mean something like "Internet Monkey?"
Ken Sutherland: hmm...
Michael Davidson: New monkey out yesterday (v 2.0)
Ken Sutherland: a combination of TCP and modem setup that would update ic4? maybe?
Ken Sutherland: and ot/ppp
Rusty Tucker: Monkey does all that, I think
Ken Sutherland: license it then 8-)
Rusty Tucker: I think it will install other components too.
Rusty Tucker: You can license it now, from RockStar
Rusty Tucker: http://www.rockstar.com/
Rusty Tucker: check it our
Michael Davidson: Monkey is at www.rockstar.com; anybody can license it
Ken Sutherland: but only rusty can integrate it 8-)
Bob Nunn: Rusty - will the 8.01 update have the multihoming? Will their be a TF Server version to support it or will it work straight up?
Rusty Tucker: 8.1 should have OT 1.3
Michael Davidson: Can someone give me the Vicom website URL?
Rusty Tucker: that supports 'single link' multi-homing, i haven't tried it yet
Rusty Tucker: http://www.Vicom.co.uk/ ?
Rusty Tucker: maybe not
Bob Nunn: I think it is Vicom.com
Michael Davidson: No bob, it isn't that
Ken Sutherland: http://www.vicomtech.com/
Donald McHose: It should.The splash notes have started on it extolling that feature
Bob Nunn: Used to have it bookmarked but I got organized and can't find nuthin now.
Michael Davidson: http://www.vicomtech.com/ IS THE CORRECT URL
Bob Nunn: They are advertising version 4 now.
Michael Davidson: says v 4.0 is out now
Michael Davidson: o, I'm late again (bob)
Rusty Tucker: any last q's before we wrap for today?
Bob Nunn: 128 k ISDN ;)
Ken Sutherland: GIVE US PPP Please
Rusty Tucker: I think you should get PPP from Vicom or Hardware
Rusty Tucker: BTW - any word on the HDS mail update?
Rusty Tucker: Is there a new version?
Donald McHose: yes
Bob Nunn: I have the new beta up. Works great. I haven't tested all of the new features yet
Rusty Tucker: I see it, cool!
mikael fredriksson: I will only let one logon and the next one will get a access denied
Bob Nunn: Jon tells me he is still working on the FTP Client and will soon have a beta.
Donald McHose: That's nice ...sigh
Rusty Tucker: oh, that's not good! Ken is that the plan or a bug?
Bob Nunn: Try mine mikael, I have been on it today.
Bob Nunn: http://206.30.216.253/mail
Donald McHose: brb
mikael fredriksson: any test user and pw?
Ken Sutherland: nope
Bob Nunn: Don't have a test user set up. I thought you were a member.
Ken Sutherland: oat FC6 should be out this weekend or the start of the week
Ken Sutherland: sorry had to go for a ppp, what was the question\'
Bob Nunn: You can sign up from the web - http://www.headgap.com/webbbs.spml
Michael Davidson: brb
Rusty Tucker: Time for lunch here, see you all next week!
Bob Nunn: mikael was having trouble getting the mail server to admit any one after the first person was on. He has to restart the server. See ya Rusty.
Donald McHose: See-YA!!
October 25, 1997
-- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software