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Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, September 9, 1997 11 AM PDT.

In attendance:

From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker

Special Guest from Keyspan: Jose Arellano

Sysops: John Eriksen, Jonathon Paisley, mikael fredriksson, Bill
Gram-Reefer, Michael Davidson, Daniel Parker, Ken Sutherland, Rick Palmer,
Robert Hall, Juan Jose Tarud, John Agapitos, Jose Jordan, Bob Nunn

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     John Eriksen: Glad to see that SI.COM is still up & running  keep it up Rusty

     Rusty Tucker: Hello Mikael!

     mikael fredriksson: Hi!

     Rusty Tucker: "chat logger" is keeping a log of this room.

     mikael fredriksson: Is it a TeleFinder client or separate program?

     Rusty Tucker: It's TF Client  connected to a node w/ Max Idle time set to -1.  The chat
     logger account also has unlimited time, and I turned off his "available for chat" so that
     there are not any Instant Message's in the log

     mikael fredriksson: ok:)

     Michael Davidson: Hey Rusty, for the last week at least, the Session Time has Host
     Time set for about 10 minutes ahead of the  real time.

     Rusty Tucker: The clock has drifted a bit on the server.

     Bill Gram-Reefer: drifting?

     Rusty Tucker: Its running about 5 mins ahead of the time on my mac

     Michael Davidson: I've been using the freeware Vremya to keep time.

     Rusty Tucker: yeah, the Mac clock is not too precise, it drifts off the actual time after a
     while

     Michael Davidson: it uses TCP to set your clock.

     Rusty Tucker: I used to have the Network Time control panel, but it kept crashing the
     computer

     Michael Davidson: uses "Network Time Protocol"

     Michael Davidson: I schedule it using Mail Server, itÍs an app

     Rusty Tucker: Please upload a copy of it to the BBS.  Is it very stable?

     Michael Davidson: I haven't ever had a problem yet. Keeps ya within a second or so.

     Jonathan Paisley: hi folks

     Rusty Tucker: Hi Jonathon, Welcome Jose!

     Michael Davidson: Being an app, it seems less problematic then an init.

     Jose Arellano: Good morning everyone!

     Michael Davidson: Morning? :)

     Jose Arellano: Thank you Rusty.

     Jose Arellano: Morning/Afternoon/Evening ;)

     Bill Gram-Reefer: hey jose

     mikael fredriksson: I'm downloading a copy of Vremya 163 now from the net will
     upload it to SI

     mikael fredriksson: :)

     Jose Arellano: Hi Bill

     Michael Davidson: I think that's the latest mikael

     Rusty Tucker: We're keeping a log, and Bob Nunn has offered to maintain an archive
     of the chat logs

     Ken Sutherland: good evening all

     Rusty Tucker: Why dont we wait  a few minutes before jumping into the topics.

     Daniel Parker: Morning (Too early once again, I might add)

     Michael Davidson: Thanks Bob (aka logger)

     Rusty Tucker: "Chat Logger" is an unmanned TF User.

     Michael Davidson: o

     mikael fredriksson: Vremya 1.63 is now in the General Utilities folder here on SI

     Rick Palmer: How's the weather over there in Larryville Michael?

     Rusty Tucker: That way I won't forget to start a log, and the Instant Message's don't get
     mixed up in the chat log.

     Michael Davidson: Nice, for August

     Michael Davidson: Good idea Rusty.

     Rick Palmer: Nice here in Eudora too.  :)

     Michael Davidson: :)

     Rick Palmer: I guess we have this area well represented

     Rusty Tucker: U should wait for the later chat Dan.  ( about 7 hrs from now )

     Rusty Tucker: Ready to start?

     Daniel Parker: But I'm at work then!

     Rusty Tucker: I'd like to welcome Jose Arellano, Product Specialist from KeySpan Inc.
     to our Chat!

     Rusty Tucker: Jose has taken the time today to bring us up to speed on the latest
     offerings from KeySpan, including their new PPP Server.

     Jonathan Paisley: Certainly a good turn out today in any case!

     Michael Davidson2: Yeah Jose!

     Rusty Tucker: After Jose has had a chance to do that we'll fill in with a little Q&A as well
     as info about TF Server 5.6b1.

     Rusty Tucker: Ready to go Jose?

     Jose Arellano: Yes.

     Rusty Tucker: Why don't you give us the short and sweet about the PPP Server?

     Jose Arellano: Basically, we have just released a new product into the Mac market:
     The Keyspan PPP Server.

     Jose Arellano: It's a hardware and software bundle consisting of our 4 port PCI serial
     card and PPP Server software.

     Rusty Tucker: What are the requirements to install it?

     Jose Arellano: It offers a lowcost solution for connecting Mac, Windows and Unix users
     to your TCP/IP based networks.

     mikael fredriksson: Will it handle the new ARA 3.0  PPP connections AppleTalk and/or
     TCP/IP ?

     Rusty Tucker: Using PPP a user can dial into my network, and access local TCP based
     servers , like TF , Web and Email.

     Jose Arellano: Any PCI based Mac running System 7.5 or greater with 2MB of RAM

     Rusty Tucker: So, you really don't even need a live connection to an ISP, unless you
     want to provide general internet access?

     Jose Arellano: Our PPP Server only handles TCP/IP via PPP however we are looking
     into adding AppleTalk to the server.

     Rusty Tucker: I'm sure there are a lot of Questions , so why don't we try to use a
     moderated format today.

     Jonathan Paisley: Is the software just Vicom Internet Gateway/Softrouter or has it been
     customized?

     Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Yes, the PPP Server software is really a modified version of
     Vicom's SoftRouter application.

     Rusty Tucker: If you want to ask a Q , please type ?

     Jose Arellano: Rusty: Correct

     Rusty Tucker: I'll respond with GA (go ahead) "username"

     Jonathan Paisley: ?

     Rusty Tucker: that way we won't trip all over each other.

     Rusty Tucker: GA Jonathon

     Jonathan Paisley: Could you tell us what some of the improvements/differences are
     with the PPP Server as compared with SoftRouter?

     Jose Arellano: Basically we've simplified the configuration of the PPP Server so that
     you can set up the server within minutes.

     Jose Arellano: We've also added support for the Radius Authentication Protocol.

     Rick Palmer: ?

     Bill Gram-Reefer: is there an upgrade path to Vicom so I could add Internet access as
     well as access to the local net the dialer is calling into?

     Rusty Tucker: That means you'll be able to register many more users than are
     supported by File Sharing ( 32 )

     Rusty Tucker: Fyi- Radius is a "User Manager" type protocol for the Internet.

     Rusty Tucker: GA Rick

     Rick Palmer: Does it have radius built in or do ya need a radius server

     Jonathan Paisley: eg MacRadius

     Rick Palmer: MacRadius is fairly pricey

     Jose Arellano: It does not have a builtin Radius server, however it can interface to any
     Radius server such as MacRadius

     Jose Arellano: You're not limited to using MacRadius.  You can use any Radius server.

     Rusty Tucker: Jose, Bill asked about Internet access, doesn't the PPP Server support
     that if you already have a routed internet connection?

     Jose Arellano: The PPP Server allows you to give access to remote users to the
     Internet  provided you have an internet connection...

     Ken Sutherland: ?

     Rusty Tucker: Can you set one of the PPP lines to dial your ISP, instead of waiting for a
     user call?

     Jose Arellano: However it does not allow multiple LAN users to share the same
     Internet connection (such as Vicom's Internet Gateway application)

     Rusty Tucker: OK, so it doesn't do the "IP Proxying".  That's a bit of a problem anyway.

     Rusty Tucker: ( proxying is the reason that CUSeeMe and some other apps don't work
     w/ Vicom )

     Michael Davidson2: ?

     Jonathan Paisley: although CUSeeMe should be updated to work with it, I say :)

     Rusty Tucker: GA Ken

     Ken Sutherland: is your system limited to 8 ports like VIG (Vicom Internet Gateway)

     Jonathan Paisley: (like VIG) ;)

     Jose Arellano: No, you can have as many ports as you want.

     Rick Palmer: ?

     Rusty Tucker: GA Mike

     Michael Davidson2: Before I get too excited, how much is your basic package (4 port
     with PPP Server software)? Or did I miss that answer.

     Rusty Tucker: :)

     Jose Arellano: $529

     Michael Davidson2: GA

     Rusty Tucker: That includes the PPP software and the SX card?

     Jose Arellano: Yes, the package includes the PPP Server software and our 4 port SX
     card

     Rusty Tucker: What if I already have a Keyspan SS6 or CSI Hurdler?

     Rusty Tucker: Will it work with those ( 4 + extra ports )?

     Jose Arellano: Yes, the PPP Server can see Keyspan serial ports.

     Jonathan Paisley: ?

     Rick Palmer: Does each 4 port config take one PCI slot?  Which would limit the # of
     ports.......

     Jose Arellano: Rick: The card that comes with the PPP Server takes up one PCI slot...

     Robert Hall: Came in late, do you ever make transcripts of these meetings?

     Rusty Tucker: I'd like to do a quick poll here, if you have a 28.8 internet connection
     respond with 288, if you have dedicated 56K or better type 56+, if you have no internet
     type 0

     Jonathan Paisley: 288

     Robert Hall: I56+

     Rusty Tucker: 56+

     Bill Gram-Reefer: 336

     Michael Davidson2: 288

     mikael fredriksson: 56+

     Keith Johnson: 288

     Daniel Parker: 56+

     Rick Palmer: 56+

     Rusty Tucker: what about the Hurdler ports?

     Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Currently, our PPP Server only sees the Keyspan ports

     Rusty Tucker: OK, now lets break it down a bit

     Michael Davidson2: ?

     Rusty Tucker: if you have a 288, is it personal or dedicated.

     Jonathan Paisley: jose: does that mean it doesn't use the comms toolbox?

     Jonathan Paisley: personal 288

     Rusty Tucker: if you have a 56+, do you support PPP dial-in now?

     Jim S.: 0

     Michael Davidson2: personal

     Bill Gram-Reefer: 24x7, no ppp

     Keith Johnson: personal

     Daniel Parker: 56+, No

     Rusty Tucker: 56+, no

     Robert Hall: 128k no ppp

     Jim S.: correction...personal

     Jose Arellano: Jonathan: It uses the CTB but the version that we market only works
     with Keyspan cards...

     Rick Palmer: 56+ yes

     mikael fredriksson: 128 k , Used to support PPP until last week (moved computer to
     work)

     Jonathan Paisley: jose: cunning ;)

     Michael Davidson2: ??

     Rusty Tucker: GA Mike

     Michael Davidson2: Do you intend to support CSI Hurdlers or Hustlers? I

     Jose Arellano: Vicom plans to sell the PPP Server by itself...

     Jose Arellano: The version that they sell will work with any serial card.

     Jonathan Paisley: with Radius support you mean?

     Jose Arellano: Jonathan: I'm not sure I understand your question.

     Jonathan Paisley: The PPP Server is your product (the one with Radius support), you
     just said that Vicom will now sell it by itself; is that a version with radius authorized
     support?

     Jose Arellano: Jonathan: Yes, their version will be identical...

     Rusty Tucker: Jose, lets take Bill's setup as an example.

     Rusty Tucker: How would he be able to use Keyspan PPP to create PPP dial-in
     accounts.

     Jose Arellano: with the exception of support for non-Keyspan serial cards.

     Bill Gram-Reefer: 2 dial in lines, plus dedicated IP connection

     Rusty Tucker: He's got a dedicated PPP connection, 2 lines going to his BBS now and
     would like to make those BBS lines, PPP lines.

     Jose Arellano: Basically, Bill would setup the PPP Server and set it up on the his
     machine with the dedicated Internet connection...

     Jose Arellano: Once he has the PPP Server up and running, he can then give access
     to the Net or to his BBS via TCP/IP.

     Jonathan Paisley: ?

     Bill Gram-Reefer: so I'm an ISP now?

     Rusty Tucker: Right, his callers will connect via FreePPP or whatever

     Jose Arellano: Yes.

     Ken Sutherland: ?

     Rusty Tucker: Does he need class C addresses?

     Robert Hall: But do without the two dial up BBS node correct?

     Robert Hall: What is the list or suggested list price of the standalone package from
     Vicom?

     Jose Arellano: Robert: PPP Users can connect to a TF system with Netscape or
     TF/User if the TF Board has some nodes setup.

     Rusty Tucker: ( to avoid overloading Jose, we're using protocol today, please type ? if
     you have a question )

     Jonathan Paisley: ?

     Rusty Tucker: Jose, Bill will need a set of class C addresses to configure the PPP
     server, is that right?

     Ken Sutherland: statement, remember that an ISP  feed rate is usually much more
     expensive

     Bill Gram-Reefer: ?

     Jose Arellano: sorry about that, my machine froze for a few seconds...

     Jose Arellano: Rusty: Bill can assign class C addresses to his dial-in users

     Rusty Tucker: How does he make the connection to his ISP?

     Rusty Tucker: Does he still use FreePPP to do that?

     Jose Arellano: Robert: Vicom hasn't released it yet so I couldn't tell you...they won't
     release their version until late 1st Qtr 98

     Robert Hall: ?

     Jose Arellano: Rusty: Yes, you would make your connection to your ISP with FreePPP,
     a router, ISDN Modem, etc.

     Jose Arellano: GA Robert

     Robert Hall: What type of gateway control, ie. restrictions on port usage does the
     software have?

     Robert Hall: for example say i only want certain customer to have access to the BBS
     over the standard spider island TCP/IP node ports and say port 80 for web access.

     Jonathan Paisley: ?

     Michael Davidson2: ?

     Rusty Tucker: ( Jon's next , then Bill, then Mike )

     Jose Arellano: Robert: The PPP Server has builtin IP filtering so you can set this up.

     Rusty Tucker: GA Jon

     Jonathan Paisley: Will there be any way to interface the PPP Server with TeleFinder's
     User Manager, or will we have to go out and buy some kind of radius server and
     export/import our TF users?

     Jose Arellano: The current version of the PPP Server cannot interface with TF's User
     Manager however we are looking into this.

     Jonathan Paisley: ok

     Jose Arellano: Bill GA

     Bill Gram-Reefer: Jonathan asked my question, yield to Mike

     Jose Arellano: ok, Mike?

     Michael Davidson2: Suppose I have a TF BBS with 2 dial-in lines and a non-
     dedicated ISP connection. If both lines are  using PPP and connected to my TCP
     nodes and then one of the users decides to go on the internet with Netscape, will the
     PPP server dialup my ISP then?

     Rusty Tucker: ( my hourly limit came up , must be close to wrapping up ! )

     Michael Davidson2: By the way, it would be extra nice if you did interface with TF's
     User Manager

     Jose Arellano: Mike, I'm not sure on that one.  I assume that your PPP Client would
     auto dial for you.  i can get back to you on this one.

     Jonathan Paisley: may I answer that question?

     Michael Davidson2: I would appreciate it.

     Jonathan Paisley: If you have a PPP single IP dialup connection, you'd need features
     of the VIG in order to access the internet

     Jonathan Paisley: In addition, the PPP dial out would have to go through the PPP
     Server application, or through a LAN router, not through FreePPP or OT/PPP

     Rusty Tucker: Our time is nearing an end today, Thanks Jose.  You can see this is a
     tough crowd ;)

     Jonathan Paisley: basically, the TCP/IP won't be routed through your local PPP client
     (like FreePPP)

     Michael Davidson2: Where will these logs be kept?

     Rusty Tucker: Remember, we'll be back tonight at 6

     Jose Arellano: Thanks for having me today!

     Rusty Tucker: Jose, will you be back at 6 too?

     Bill Gram-Reefer: 6 pdt?

     Jose Arellano: Yes.

     Michael Davidson2: THANKS Jose!

     Rusty Tucker: yep 6 ptd

     Bob Nunn: Looking forward to it.  Sorry I missed most of it.

     Jose Arellano: You're welcome Michael!

     Bill Gram-Reefer: too bad I have a centris 610!

     Rusty Tucker: XXXXXXX <- (claps not kisses!)

     Bill Gram-Reefer: xxxxxx

     mikael fredriksson: Thanks Jose!

     Michael Davidson2: Thanks Jonathan, then we need to make sure his PPP Server
     handles this or it won't work.

     Rusty Tucker: On to TeleFinder Server 5.6b1!

     Jonathan Paisley: oh yeah! Almost forgot about that!

     Bill Gram-Reefer: do tell

     Jose Arellano: Goodbye everyone!

     Bob Nunn: Bye then - send me the logs and I I'l edit them and send back.

     Michael Davidson2: Might have to Ax the Logs a little Bob :)

     Rusty Tucker: I'll have it posted right after lunch. B1 supports Windows for Plug-ins,
     and supports Listening Threads for Plug-ins.

     Rusty Tucker: Plug-in windows can be used for preferences, about screens or
     graphical displays

     Rusty Tucker: With listens a plug-in developer can implement a server within
     TeleFinder

     Jonathan Paisley: ftp...

     Jonathan Paisley: java chat...

     Rusty Tucker: IE , you could write a Radius, or FTP server as a plug-in

     Robert Hall: ?

     Rusty Tucker: GA Robert

     Robert Hall: will the beta come with an example of the API?

     Rusty Tucker: That part is already online here.

     Rusty Tucker: http://wsapi.spiderisland.com

     Robert Hall: thanx

     Bill Gram-Reefer: ?

     Rusty Tucker: Its my C++ Plugin framework. I updated it for WSAPI 1.2 a couple weeks
     ago

     Rusty Tucker: GA Bill

     Bill Gram-Reefer: I think I understand the LISTENs part with the plug-ins, but go over
     again the Windows part

     Rusty Tucker: OK

     Rusty Tucker: There is a new menu called "Plug-ins"

     Bill Gram-Reefer: in TF server?

     Rusty Tucker: yep, each plug appears as a menu item there

     Rusty Tucker: If its an older plug-in, its name is grayed out.

     Bill Gram-Reefer: so i can set prefs of each Plugin from a menu window?

     Rusty Tucker: if it's a new plug-in, you can select it from the menu, and the about
     screen should come up

     Rusty Tucker: These features need to be supported by the Plugin

     Rusty Tucker: The "demo" plug-in supports its "Echo" setting via its window, or via
     pi_admin

     Rusty Tucker: You can also get a C development kit from StarNine.

     Rusty Tucker: Chuck Shotton has written a couple of samples too.

     Rusty Tucker: One is a basic "telnet" echo program that uses listens and windows.

     Robert Hall: ?

     Rusty Tucker: 5.6 B2 will support the TOP command in POP3, this is used by a lot of
     Handheld POP clients.

     Rusty Tucker: GA Robert

     Robert Hall: are there any "undocumented" features of the User Manager Web Plug in
     you wrote? (Which by the way is SO great... I love it!)

     Rusty Tucker: It uses all public info.

     Rusty Tucker: I should release the source to it as a sample

     Jonathan Paisley: yah!

     Robert Hall: I just was curious to know if there was a way I could have it return only
     certain information. Such as only list all the names of current users and their last
     logon.

     Rusty Tucker: Sure, can you tweak C++ code?

     Robert Hall: nope.....got left behind in programming around BASIC.....

     Jim S.: ?

     Rusty Tucker: GA

     Jim S.: Is there documentation. on just what a plugin is?

     Rusty Tucker: Yes, http://wsapi.spiderisland.com

     Rusty Tucker: also the Starnine website

     Bill Gram-Reefer: got to go, you folks are huge, BYE

     Jim S.: Is this the same kind of stuff(plugin) that Netscape uses?

     Rusty Tucker: There are WebStar API server plug-ins.  They replace CGI

     Juan Jose Tarud: When will TF 5.6b be released...is it true that it is today?

     Rusty Tucker: b1 will be online after lunch

     Juan Jose Tarud: cool!

     Rusty Tucker: I need to recompile it , stuff it and so on.

     Juan Jose Tarud: does it feel good after all?

     Daniel Parker: If TF 5.6b1 is released today, most of us will be out of time due to the
     chat :-(

     Juan Jose Tarud: that's true

     Rusty Tucker: Use the web site, no time limits!

     Rusty Tucker: Or just email me for more time

     Daniel Parker: true

     Daniel Parker: (Why do we have time limits??)

     Juan Jose Tarud: why are you giving SysOps just 1 hour daily? we just use the
     accounts for TF related stuff

     Robert Hall: ?

     Rusty Tucker: It's really just a tradition from the 'just 4 modem days

     Rusty Tucker: Go ahead Robert

     Robert Hall: do the sysops have mail boxes here....i just now noticed for the first time, i
     don't have a mailbox here.

     Rusty Tucker: Just email me if you want more time.  I can reset your account to
     unlimited logons, 1 hr each

     Rusty Tucker: yes

     Rusty Tucker: supposed to anyway :)

     Robert Hall: hmmm....strange

     Rusty Tucker: Well guys, I need to eat, then build b1

     Rusty Tucker: Any last questions?

     Juan Jose Tarud: I can not believe that this isn't slow

     Daniel Parker: No, Bye

     Jim S.: Thanks Rusty... cu

     Robert Hall: thanks for the info!! and keep up the good work!

     Daniel Parker: Thanks

     Juan Jose Tarud: we'll be waiting for b1

     Juan Jose Tarud: thanx Rusty

     Jose Jordan: when is the next meeting???

     Rusty Tucker: 6 pm tonight, then 11 am Friday

     Rusty Tucker: it is 12:30 pm now

     Jose Jordan: OK, thanks!!

     Juan Jose Tarud: First time I do not see O'Leary around an SI chat

     Jose Jordan: Adios, amigos!!!

     John Agapitos: hello, I'll be back in 3 hours

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September 9,1997 -- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software