---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text of TeleFinder Chat from Tuesday, November 3, 1997 11 AM PST. In attendance: From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker, Sysops: Michael Davidson, Ken Sutherland, Jonathan Paisley, Bob Nunn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Paisley: hi Michael Michael Davidson: ready for mail PI questions?? :) Rusty Tucker: Hola! Michael Davidson: Hi Rusty Jonathan Paisley: yah, sure! Michael Davidson: I'm on another line with my ISP, I may have to "disconnect quickly" Jonathan Paisley: modem hung up :( Michael Davidson: Hi 2 Jonathan Paisley: ; Michael Davidson: What's in the Rusty works? Rusty Tucker: Looking at cleaning up 5.6 and releasing it soon! Jonathan Paisley: how about including support for serving by file type/creator? Rusty Tucker: :) Michael Davidson: Great Rusty Tucker: I'll take a look at adding that when Internet Config is installed. Jonathan Paisley: great! Jonathan Paisley: Like I said before, WebStar does it, so TF really ought to too :) Rusty Tucker: I need to find out what is a higher priority extension or type Jonathan Paisley: extension is higher priority Jonathan Paisley: I saw a post about it in WebStar[dev|talk] list a few days ago Rusty Tucker: From a "Purity" point of view, it should really just be extension Rusty Tucker: It may be confusing to some users otherwise Jonathan Paisley: W* searches for an extension match. If there is no extension, or there is no extension match with defined mappings, file type and creator are searched Jonathan Paisley: First for an exact file/creator match Jonathan Paisley: second for a file type only Rusty Tucker: Some people just won't get why a file has a given Finder icon, but gets served by TeleFinder differently than another file Rusty Tucker: that has the same icon Jonathan Paisley: Surely if the file has the same icon its likely to be the same file type? Rusty Tucker: Overall its much simpler to go by File Extension only Rusty Tucker: Exactly Jon, but maybe a different extension Jonathan Paisley: One example where this would be very helpful is for serving text files on the BBS over the web. Text files that don't end in '.txt' aren't served as text/plain, but are shown raw by the browser, without proper line mappings Jonathan Paisley: Perhaps we could have an option for turning it on or off then? Jonathan Paisley: Remember also though, that WebStar does this automatically, and I've never seen/heard of problems from WebStar users experiencing difficulty with this behaviors Rusty Tucker: maybe so Rusty Tucker: Do you know what priority Internet Config uses? Michael Davidson: ? Rusty Tucker: ga Michael Davidson: Can IE display PICT previews if it has the QT plug-in installed? Rusty Tucker: I didn't try that Michael Michael Davidson: I might have to go in a second Jonathan Paisley: my main reason for wanting this facility is to be able to serve up jpeg images directly from the bbs without having to add '.jpg' to the filename Jonathan Paisley: I have a plugin working that extracts pict previews from jpegs etc and creates a GIF from it on the fly, caching as it goes Rusty Tucker: I'll try it in the next B release Jonathan Paisley: cool! Jonathan Paisley: Michael: you had q's regarding the mail pi? Rusty Tucker: Jon, did you get the TF Dir Mapping/Vir hosting issue resolved? I've never seen anything like that before. Rusty Tucker: BTW - i send you an email file that produced the wrong downloading options. Rusty Tucker: ( in the mail-pi ) Jonathan Paisley: Oh yeah, I remember that now. The file got filed away in my attachment sfolder and I forgot all about it. I'll add a sticky to remind me about it Jonathan Paisley: What went wrong with that particular message? Rusty Tucker: It showed 2 attachments, when there was really just 1 Jonathan Paisley: Was it AppleDouble encoded? Rusty Tucker: maybe so Jonathan Paisley: It should have shown two files, the first with a '%' at the start (depends on what encoded the appledouble in the first place) Rusty Tucker: yep that's it Jonathan Paisley: The PI doesn't know about appledouble at the moment Rusty Tucker: ok Jonathan Paisley: Its a pain, because in general AppleDouble has the resource fork first, then the data fork Jonathan Paisley: Unfortunately, all the mac encoding methods (eg macbinary and binhex) encode the data fork before the resource fork. Rusty Tucker: why is that a prob? Jonathan Paisley: What I need to do is either extract and cache the resource fork to a file, or save the file position (probably what I'll do) and go back and read that part. Jonathan Paisley: It's a prob since the PI tries to do absolutely everything based on a single non-positionable stream Rusty Tucker: you shouldn't need to do that much work Rusty Tucker: just create the res file and write it, then the data Jonathan Paisley: IE, it decodes base64 Pop3 attachments as it goes and then re-encodes in macbinary or binhex in order to send to the client Rusty Tucker: o i c Jonathan Paisley: But I'd rather not have to build the file on disk. But I may resort to that... Jonathan Paisley: The other thing is that building the file on disk will take time, time during which the client is not receiving any data Rusty Tucker: right, plus you might run out of space Jonathan Paisley: exactly Jonathan Paisley: Also, the code to parse multipart 822 messages is a real pain Rusty Tucker: seeking back is probably the thing to do Rusty Tucker: have you checked out "hotmail" Jonathan Paisley: especially when you have to consider that some multipart parts constitute one attachment (appledouble), whereas sometimes the part is just an alternative (text/html) Jonathan Paisley: I don't know about hotmail, I have an account there but rarely use it. I have a friend who uses hotmail exclusively, so he may know about hotmail's handling of attachments Jonathan Paisley: Basically, everything would be very easy if I were to parse the 822 file TWICE. However, I'd rather not do that since Rusty Tucker: I know they have a 1 Meg limit. Rusty Tucker: I'll send myself a appledouble and see what happens Jonathan Paisley: the 822 file may contain (say) a 10mb attachment, and that would take an awful long time to parse twice Jonathan Paisley: You might find that it just lets you download the appledouble file Jonathan Paisley: And then you have to somehow drop that into something like your POP3 email client that will decode it for you. Jonathan Paisley: One thing you can do with the mail pi is let the browser view the RFC822 file as MIME type message/RFC822 Jonathan Paisley: When you are viewing a message, the url should be something like view.mail?file=12345 Rusty Tucker: u mean as raw test? Ken Sutherland: is it me or is this sllloooowwww Rusty Tucker: text Rusty Tucker: not slow here Jonathan Paisley: Change it to RFC822.asimail?file=12345 Jonathan Paisley: That should show the RFC822 as the browser will view it Jonathan Paisley: That way you can let the browse re-extract the message Jonathan Paisley: I know for one that Netscape just downloads the appledouble part and does nothing else with it Jonathan Paisley: . Rusty Tucker: it wanted to download it as RFC822 Jonathan Paisley: yah, that's right. That URL I indicated should to that Jonathan Paisley: . Ken Sutherland: where did every 1 go Rusty Tucker: no chatters today Ken Sutherland: was telling Jon, demon in the uk are testing a mail plugin for pc Ken Sutherland: nt Rusty Tucker: yeah? Rusty Tucker: did you see it? Ken Sutherland: amy sing in the us Ken Sutherland: not yet, will try tonight Rusty Tucker: www.hotmail.com Ken Sutherland: any sing Rusty Tucker: a whole site based on web mail Ken Sutherland: ok Ken Sutherland: several virtual bbs's based on web are starting to become popular Rusty Tucker: it would be great to sync the release of the mail-pi with TF Server 5.6 :) Jonathan Paisley: what do you think about $$ for mail pi standalone (ie just the plugin)? Ken Sutherland: Jon, status with attachment prob? Rusty Tucker: also it would be nice to use SPML type code for customizing the pages. Rusty Tucker: $150 seems good to me Jonathan Paisley: I think a lot of users would think that a bit steep Ken Sutherland: $149.99 Jonathan Paisley: How do you work with the commercial/hobby pricing strategy? Rusty Tucker: You can always 'seed' the market with hand picked sites to get some examples in use Rusty Tucker: Its pretty much in line with other Plug-in prices Rusty Tucker: Check what they charge at Maxum and other web* PI's Jonathan Paisley: BTW, I got the source from Suzie from Chris today... Rusty Tucker: I just picked a price for hobbyists that seems good Rusty Tucker: me2, that's the file that had the Apple Double attachment Jonathan Paisley: What I meant was do you think it's worth having a 'hobbyists' price for the mail pi? Jonathan Paisley: Having said that, hobbyists are unlikely to have a need for the mail pi Jonathan Paisley: ie they're unlikely to have the necessary internet connection Rusty Tucker: right Rusty Tucker: I'd bang on sunflower and mac connect to get their interest in the mail pi Jonathan Paisley: righto Jonathan Paisley: [I'm gonna have to go in 10 mins] Ken Sutherland: give k56 a miss BTW Rusty Tucker: I found a folder with a bunch of ca 1995 Internet downloads :) Rusty Tucker: things sure have changed! Rusty Tucker: GNN was a "big site" Ken Sutherland: dusty Ken Sutherland: Jon, how is the SI feed, its crap through demon Jonathan Paisley: I'm on through Glasgow uni dialup Ken Sutherland: wow , big pipe Ken Sutherland: have u worked out how to get plugin working with aims yet? Rusty Tucker: Hye Bob! Ken Sutherland: hi Bob Bob Nunn: Hello sorry I am so late get tied up sometimes hate to miss anything. I need OAT update my server may be down if it expired right? Rusty Tucker: brb Jonathan Paisley: nope, not yet Jonathan Paisley: yah Ken Sutherland: u got new key Ken Sutherland: ? Ken Sutherland: will be showing Apple UK the mail plugin on Friday at the MacExpo in London Bob Nunn: Did you say you sent me a new key. I have an office full. Jonathan Paisley: gotta go, cya folks later! Rusty Tucker: c ya Bob Nunn: By Jon Ken Sutherland: Bob, ok , what do you need? Bob Nunn: I think my OAT is ready to expire. Ken Sutherland: serial no. Bob Nunn: Does 19063 sound right Ken Sutherland: snap Bob Nunn: think that is right. Ken Sutherland: ok, copy paste these details, then delete from log 8-) Rusty Tucker: yep its right Bob Nunn: wait let us do that separate Rusty Tucker: do it by IM Ken Sutherland: ok Ken Sutherland: that should do you for 30 days Rusty Tucker: BTW - Should start updating the Spider Island Web Site today w/ new home page and TF Info pages Ken Sutherland: we are hoping to release fc6 in the next few days Ken Sutherland: we are classing it as final release Ken Sutherland: ie OAT v2 by start of next week Ken Sutherland: so even Rusty could run it 8-) Rusty Tucker: The TeleFinder info is split into 4 sections, Web Server, BBS, Mail Server and TF Clients. Ken Sutherland: BTW its been stable for weeks Rusty Tucker: yee ha! Ken Sutherland: smart Ken Sutherland: Rusty, u promised me some docs, any chance of getting them Rusty Tucker: oh yeah, TF User? Ken Sutherland: for both clients Ken Sutherland: when are u planning to release 5.6 Rusty Tucker: very soon - just gotta make the final tweaks Ken Sutherland: rusty, would it be ok to use SI's chat room for a q/a session on oat and mail plugin Rusty Tucker: Jon wants an change in the file mapping, so that it will work by extension and file type Rusty Tucker: Yes, please do. Rusty Tucker: Would you like me to post a time on the schedule? Ken Sutherland: what day is better, Tuesday or Friday, best to run after SI chat Rusty Tucker: i may have missed that Ken Sutherland: what day is better, Tuesday or Friday, best to run after SI chat Rusty Tucker: I'd go for a separate day- since the TF chat runs on from time to time Ken Sutherland: 8-) Rusty Tucker: + it would make the OAT chat more distinct Rusty Tucker: like take Wed or Thursday Ken Sutherland: IÍll check with Jon, if we release on schedule ( I hope) then maybe next Thursday Ken Sutherland: Bob, any final probs we need to know about? Rusty Tucker: time for me to go, I'll upload the log to chat Bob Nunn: Not really. I haven't had time to retry the file search plug in again. I did not get it to work the first time I tried it. Thanks Rusty. ------------------------------------------------------------------ November 3, 1997 -- ŠCopyright 1997, Spider Island Software