---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Text of TeleFinder Chat from Friday, October 24, 1997 11 AM PDT. In attendance: From Spider Island: Rusty Tucker, Sysops: Michael Davidson, mikael fredriksson, Jim Smith, Ken Sutherland, Bob Nunn, Donald McHose ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rusty Tucker: Hi Jim! Rusty Tucker: hey Jim Smith: Hi Rusty. Michael Davidson: Hi Rusty, Jim. Michael Davidson: I didn't think you were going to be here today Rusty. How did the conference go? Rusty Tucker: It was pretty good. got a lot of insight into what different newspapers want to do online. Michael Davidson: Cool. that would be an important market. Rusty Tucker: I made a little presentation about what I though would be a good approach - kind of a combination Hotmail/Newsite/BBS/ISP Michael Davidson: Did you get any potential customer leads ? Michael Davidson: How did that go over? Rusty Tucker: The people there are mostly TF users to begin with Michael Davidson: O, that's not bad either Rusty Tucker: Good, got a lot of heads scratching :) Michael Davidson: LOL Michael Davidson: ISP seems like a weird component, but I use an ISP that is from a newspaper Ken Sutherland: good evening all Rusty Tucker: The ISP component is important now since Web Access is not universal yet Michael Davidson: The BBS component would be real nice too for local newspaper subscribers Rusty Tucker: Once it is, they can drop that part Bob Nunn: I agree and the pieces are getting cheaper to get there. I would love to be able to offer a low cost or free access to the local kids. Rusty Tucker: For smaller papers I would offer free dial-up TCP access to the local data/email only Michael Davidson: Are many newspapers into becoming ISP's (like i said, I use one that is) Rusty Tucker: Yes, as it turns out Knight-Ridder is into the ISP biz a little bit to Donald McHose: The N.C Charlotte Observer has become a rather large one Michael Davidson: Is that Knight-Rider, the communications program of old? Rusty Tucker: They made a presentation about their sites ( SJ-Merc etc ) that was pretty close to my own thoughts. Michael Davidson: or is that a newspaper chain Rusty Tucker: They're a news paper publisher, very big Jim Smith: The local newspaper, which is part of Knight-Ridder, does, however its king of sub for KR. Jim Smith: kind - king Michael Davidson: What main component do they want from TF Rusty that it doesn't yet have? Rusty Tucker: As I was doing research for the presentation I found out that HOTMAIL is now bigger than AOL! Michael Davidson: whoa...and I know almost nothing about hotmail...tell me something about it Bob Nunn: And AOL has them in their filter list for spam still Rusty Tucker: Something like 8 Million + subscribers! Rusty Tucker: :) surprised not at all! Rusty Tucker: Filtering them as a competitor more likely Rusty Tucker: Hotmail is your email on via a web browser, much like HDS mail for TF Ken Sutherland: could that be anti-competitive practice ? Rusty Tucker: its free, supported by advertising Michael Davidson: Wait a minute, I used to get a lot of junk mail from hotmail sites....so, although it is probably true about AOL, hotmail seems to send lots of spam Bob Nunn: They are one of the rampant spam producers. I don't they do much to qualify their users. Donald McHose: sounds like a web version of Juno Rusty Tucker: yep that's it Rusty Tucker: There's lot and lots of legitimate hotmail users though Rusty Tucker: and getting more so Michael Davidson: yeah, I'm sure there are...out of 8 million...I didn't get that much hotmail spam :) Michael Davidson: Again, Rusty, What main component do they want from TF Rusty that it doesn't yet have? Rusty Tucker: AOL should talk about SPAM, ever visit their Conference areas?! Rusty Tucker: The component s I think you need are: Rusty Tucker: - a strong OS to support a high volume commercial system Rusty Tucker: - PPP access w/ firewalling on a per user basis Rusty Tucker: - "BBS" components in the web server ( got that ) Rusty Tucker: - really good web based email ( getting that :) ) Rusty Tucker: - good web based chat ( haven't seen it anywhere yet ) Rusty Tucker: - an automated business end for advertising and user tracking Rusty Tucker: - a listserver Rusty Tucker: - some offline search agents as a service to the users. Rusty Tucker: - personal web sites so each user can create their own Rusty Tucker: That would about cover it. If there was a 'turn-key' solution for this, I think it would be a good sell to newspaper sites. Michael Davidson: Wow...If I gave you 3 months, could you come to a site and set this up with current software? Rusty Tucker: brb Bob Nunn: Where would you get the strong OS? Everything else can be done sort of. Ken Sutherland: could we have FUN Bob Nunn: Depends on the budget Michael Davidson: sort of is a lot of the problem Ken Sutherland: yup,yup,yup Ken Sutherland: BEOS? Bob Nunn: I have most of what he has listed with the exception of the listserver. I use mail forwarding to serve lists now but they are not elegant to adjust and maintain. Rusty Tucker: Maybe, I'm going to be talking with a couple of the other folks from the conference about this next week. Michael Davidson: Why would a newspaper choose TF as a main component to do the setup as outlined by Rusty? Rusty Tucker: Selling MacOS is the hard-part. Bob Nunn: Because nothing else is any closer... Rusty Tucker: I'm pretty sure you need to sell it on Unix or NT Donald McHose: ouch Bob Nunn: Both likely. Rusty Tucker: Unfortunately that's the reality of the Commercial site market Michael Davidson: But Rusty, one main component that TF on a Mac can offer small to kind of large companies is the ease of setup and maintenance and that is VERY important Rusty Tucker: I think so too. Rusty Tucker: Otherwise you spend all your profits on maintenance. Michael Davidson: Maybe you can't get the huge companies because of Mac, but get the less than huge ones Michael Davidson: and breakdowns and configuring and .... Bob Nunn: The system integrates well with our NT, and our UNIX system is a ways away still. We are converting to a Progress Based Unix System from our old HP mainframe Rusty Tucker: The problem is MS and Netscape will be trying to sell into the same accounts Michael Davidson: You haven't included the PPP ISP part above... Michael Davidson: Yes, that could be a real problem. Michael Davidson: So what does TF have that MS and NS doesn't. The wonderful interface (that beginners can start out on). Michael Davidson: Ease of use and ease of setup should be your focus, IMHO. Rusty Tucker: just a sec Rusty Tucker: ok Rusty Tucker: I'd use dht PPP hardware and modem banks Michael Davidson: Let newbies log onto a TF bbs interface, from there they can go where they want on the net. Michael Davidson: dht?? Rusty Tucker: the Michael Davidson: I'd make TF/User and Server talk PPP, Server would be a small ISP. Rusty Tucker: The good thing is that Macs totally DOMINATE the press rooms, and they won't give em up! Rusty Tucker: And close to 50% of web sites are made by mac ( according to Web Week ) Donald McHose: Wish that would translate into printed words. Michael Davidson: That is a great thing . I've heard that percentage too Rusty...emphasize that in the sell Rusty Tucker: Serving %'s are something else though. Rusty Tucker: Just take a look at netcraft sometime Rusty Tucker: Apache, Netscape, MS and everybody else fights for the 10% that's left over Ken Sutherland: we are developing a plugin for VIG that uses user manager for pap, also working on Radius if that helps? Rusty Tucker: I think that helps big time Rusty Tucker: especially the RADIUS part Donald McHose: amen Ken Sutherland: we need a hybrid solution for the clients Rusty Tucker: Then you can work with the PPP hardware Michael Davidson: What TF sysops are currently using the PPP hardware (Vicom) Ken Sutherland: brotho Ken Sutherland: most Donald McHose: We have a sonic box( limited at best but problem free) Rusty Tucker: Vig might work if you want to be a 10 line ISP, maybe more Michael Davidson: Are there 3 PPP hardware solutions? sonic, Vicom, and the one from Jose? Rusty Tucker: Does it do real routing , or just spoofing? Ken Sutherland: also tribal link 2 & 8 Ken Sutherland: nice and smooth Ken Sutherland: smooth Rusty Tucker: The PPP server they're selling to Keyspan spoofs, I think you need real routing mikael fredriksson: Hi! Ken Sutherland: hi Donald McHose: hey Ken Sutherland: why not standardize the recommended setup rusty Michael Davidson: Any real routing solutions out of the 4 ppp hardware/software choices? Ken Sutherland: at least we would have a reference to work from Rusty Tucker: Tribe is real Rusty Tucker: 2 or 4 ports only though Rusty Tucker: ( i think ) Ken Sutherland: tribelink 8 Ken Sutherland: Ł800 Michael Davidson: That might work for me, 8 would be the most I would want Rusty Tucker: and it does radius , right Ken? Michael Davidson: is that $1000 Ken Sutherland: $1200 Ken Sutherland: hang as many tribes as you need Michael Davidson: So, is Tribe the only real routing choice? Michael Davidson: as many as you can afford, that is :) Ken Sutherland: configure via TCP and Netscape Rusty Tucker: There's a lot of solutions for ISPs... big time stuff, real cool Rusty Tucker: Ken what about RADIUS for Tribe? mikael fredriksson: I used a Tribelink 8 on my setup at home worked without any problems mikael fredriksson: yes it does use radius Rusty Tucker: good deal Michael Davidson: so clue me in, what if I went with a non-real routing solution (spoofing??) Michael Davidson: What would I loose Ken Sutherland: rusty uses portmaster, another good product, up to 30 lines per box Rusty Tucker: Drew at MacConnect was telling me about a totally digital modem bank, completely remote manageable Michael Davidson: So multiple tribelink 8's is the best solution now Rusty Tucker: and just 1 wire set into the wall! mikael fredriksson: But it only can use 56 k on the serial ports if you use it as a 8 port Rusty Tucker: Can you do multiple Tribes? Donald McHose: Sounds like USR's sys. Ken Sutherland: is that the Ascend box? Michael Davidson: Was that the tribelink you spoke of mikael? Rusty Tucker: It probably is mikael fredriksson: Yes Tribelink 8 Rusty Tucker: Full digital to the Telco Michael Davidson: I could live with that Ken Sutherland: K56 all the way Rusty Tucker: only the client side to Telco is analog, then full digital inside the Telco and Telco to you Ken Sutherland: Q. is access via power lines available in the USA? Michael Davidson: So what kind of service line do you need for a tribelink 8 Donald McHose: no mikael fredriksson: And it can handle 400 accounts without a radius server Ken Sutherland: anything from 64K up Rusty Tucker: 400 is not enough for me mikael fredriksson: Then you need a Radius server... Donald McHose: Right now only the Brits have it and they are not planning to import at this time ,so I've heard Donald McHose: export I mean Rusty Tucker: Oh, that make sense 400 internal or unlimited via server Michael Davidson: 400 is enough for many though Ken Sutherland: we will have it within next 12 months Michael Davidson: Where can I get a lot more info about Tribelink 8 Ken Sutherland: full digital access, speed unknown Ken Sutherland: goto there site Donald McHose: That is going to be a trip.I cannot wait to hear how it does.An old idea coming to age Michael Davidson: (I guessed that Ken) What is their company name? Tribelink? Rusty Tucker: http://www.tribe.com/ Donald McHose: Were is it I've done a search to no avail Michael Davidson: Thanks Rusty Rusty Tucker: still loading, don't know for sure yet Ken Sutherland: tribe offers full TCP and AppleTalk over TCP, nice for IP5 mikael fredriksson: http://www.zoomtel.com/ Ken Sutherland: zoom bought them a year ago Ken Sutherland: never improved them though Michael Davidson: thanks mikael Michael Davidson: I am not a lover of zoom, at all Bob Nunn: Glad to hear that. Might have made them typical zoom quality. Michael Davidson: Why should I not go with Vicom instead of tribelink Bob Nunn: Comes down to scale and budget I would think. Ken Sutherland: rusty, custom tool request, 1 that would start a ppp hookup and then log onto TF, all configured via TF and a easy setup, your ideas Ken Sutherland: VIG is a software solution, not as efficient Rusty Tucker: Seems like just clicking the "connect" button in TF, or do you mean something like "Internet Monkey?" Ken Sutherland: hmm... Michael Davidson: New monkey out yesterday (v 2.0) Ken Sutherland: a combination of TCP and modem setup that would update ic4? maybe? Ken Sutherland: and ot/ppp Rusty Tucker: Monkey does all that, I think Ken Sutherland: license it then 8-) Rusty Tucker: I think it will install other components too. Rusty Tucker: You can license it now, from RockStar Rusty Tucker: http://www.rockstar.com/ Rusty Tucker: check it our Michael Davidson: Monkey is at www.rockstar.com; anybody can license it Ken Sutherland: but only rusty can integrate it 8-) Bob Nunn: Rusty - will the 8.01 update have the multihoming? Will their be a TF Server version to support it or will it work straight up? Rusty Tucker: 8.1 should have OT 1.3 Michael Davidson: Can someone give me the Vicom website URL? Rusty Tucker: that supports 'single link' multi-homing, i haven't tried it yet Rusty Tucker: http://www.Vicom.co.uk/ ? Rusty Tucker: maybe not Bob Nunn: I think it is Vicom.com Michael Davidson: No bob, it isn't that Ken Sutherland: http://www.vicomtech.com/ Donald McHose: It should.The splash notes have started on it extolling that feature Bob Nunn: Used to have it bookmarked but I got organized and can't find nuthin now. Michael Davidson: http://www.vicomtech.com/ IS THE CORRECT URL Bob Nunn: They are advertising version 4 now. Michael Davidson: says v 4.0 is out now Michael Davidson: o, I'm late again (bob) Rusty Tucker: any last q's before we wrap for today? Bob Nunn: 128 k ISDN ;) Ken Sutherland: GIVE US PPP Please Rusty Tucker: I think you should get PPP from Vicom or Hardware Rusty Tucker: BTW - any word on the HDS mail update? Rusty Tucker: Is there a new version? Donald McHose: yes Bob Nunn: I have the new beta up. Works great. I haven't tested all of the new features yet Rusty Tucker: I see it, cool! mikael fredriksson: I will only let one logon and the next one will get a access denied Bob Nunn: Jon tells me he is still working on the FTP Client and will soon have a beta. Donald McHose: That's nice ...sigh Rusty Tucker: oh, that's not good! Ken is that the plan or a bug? Bob Nunn: Try mine mikael, I have been on it today. Bob Nunn: http://206.30.216.253/mail Donald McHose: brb mikael fredriksson: any test user and pw? Ken Sutherland: nope Bob Nunn: Don't have a test user set up. I thought you were a member. Ken Sutherland: oat FC6 should be out this weekend or the start of the week Ken Sutherland: sorry had to go for a ppp, what was the question\' Bob Nunn: You can sign up from the web - http://www.headgap.com/webbbs.spml Michael Davidson: brb Rusty Tucker: Time for lunch here, see you all next week! Bob Nunn: mikael was having trouble getting the mail server to admit any one after the first person was on. He has to restart the server. See ya Rusty. Donald McHose: See-YA!! ------------------------------------------------------------------ October 25, 1997 -- ©Copyright 1997, Spider Island Software